Why the Scottish Natural Environment Bill must be fixed

[David Barker]

It should be a requirement of an FAC application that you are deemed safe to use the firearms. It happens in all other areas, so why is shooting so special that it needs no training at all. THere's enough evidence out there that people are not as good at shooting as they should be

I do not agree i use tools every day and i don't have a cert for them including chainsaws and angle grinders etc should i sit a test. There is no evidence out there that stats people are not shooting correctly that is the point. Point me to where some one with his DSC1 is a better shot than some one with out.

 

[VSS]

I do not agree i use tools every day and i don't have a cert for them including chainsaws and angle grinders etc should i sit a test. There is no evidence out there that stats people are not shooting correctly that is the point. Point me to where some one with his DSC1 is a better shot than some one with out.

Personally, I'm opposed to the introduction of mandatory training for stalkers, provided that the deer industry can demonstrate a high level of voluntary uptake of training. And currently I think we can, as the vast majority of newcomers to stalking are doing DSC1.
However, something has to be done about the general standard of carcass presentation, which overall is very poor. That's the area where training - possibly mandatory - is really required.

 

[David Barker]

Personally, I'm opposed to the introduction of mandatory training for stalkers, provided that the deer industry can demonstrate a high level of voluntary uptake of training. And currently I think we can, as the vast majority of newcomers to stalking are doing DSC1.
However, something has to be done about the general standard of carcass presentation, which overall is very poor. That's the area where training - possibly mandatory - is really required.

Presenting to who. Most shooting deer present there carcases to them selves. If bad carcases are presented to VD or the supper dealers AGHE then it is at the point of entry they should be stopped in scotland they can only take deer from trained hunters. I don't see were mandatory training in this instance help.s ?

 

[VSS]

Presenting to who. Most shooting deer present there carcases to them selves. If bad carcases are presented to VD or the supper dealers AGHE then it is at the point of entry they should be stopped in scotland they can only take deer from trained hunters. I don't see were mandatory training in this instance help.s ?

Carcass presentation. As in, the appearance and general cleanliness of the carcass. Doesn't matter where it's going, AGHE or home consumption, it's still going into the food chain. And generally the standard isn't high enough. An AGHE can (in fact, should) turn carcasses away that aren't up to scratch, but no-one monitors the ones that are butchered for home consumption or for distribution among friends and family or given away on Facebook.
I would hate to see additional legislation or mandatory training being introduced to tackle this, but what other options are there to encourage stalkers to up their game in this respect?

The chap - an experienced stalker - who shot and gralloched this deer thought it was fine. I think (hope) you'll agree with me that he could do with some training, despite his years of experience and regardless of who's dinner plate it was going to end up on:

 

[Nickb]

Carcass presentation. As in, the appearance and general cleanliness of the carcass. Doesn't matter where it's going, AGHE or home consumption, it's still going into the food chain. And generally the standard isn't high enough. An AGHE can (in fact, should) turn carcasses away that aren't up to scratch, but no-one monitors the ones that are butchered for home consumption or for distribution among friends and family or given away on Facebook.
I would hate to see additional legislation or mandatory training being introduced to tackle this, but what other options are there to encourage stalkers to up their game in this respect?

The chap - an experienced stalker - who shot and gralloched this deer thought it was fine. I think (hope) you'll agree with me that he could do with some training, despite his years of experience and regardless of who's dinner plate it was going to end up on:

Feck me , my dog would do a better job.

 

[David Barker]

Carcass presentation. As in, the appearance and general cleanliness of the carcass. Doesn't matter where it's going, AGHE or home consumption, it's still going into the food chain. And generally the standard isn't high enough. An AGHE can (in fact, should) turn carcasses away that aren't up to scratch, but no-one monitors the ones that are butchered for home consumption or for distribution among friends and family or given away on Facebook.
I would hate to see additional legislation or mandatory training being introduced to tackle this, but what other options are there to encourage stalkers to up their game in this respect?

The chap - an experienced stalker - who shot and gralloched this deer thought it was fine. I think (hope) you'll agree with me that he could do with some training, despite his years of experience and regardless of who's dinner plate it was going to end up on:

We all have story's that could upset people but if its mandatory do you think that would in fact improve the quality. I tried to upload pictures of tw3o carcases that w3ere processed and tagged at a FC larder. They were disgusting and placed by a contractor who is now a believe a contactor manager. sadly it says the file is to large to up load.

 

[VSS]

We all have story's that could upset people but if its mandatory do you think that would in fact improve the quality. I tried to upload pictures of tw3o carcases that w3ere processed and tagged at a FC larder. They were disgusting and placed by a contractor who is now a believe a contactor manager. sadly it says the file is to large to up load.

No, maybe mandatory training isn't the answer, but my point is that mandatory training is likely to be foisted upon us unless we tackle these problems from within and are able to demonstrate that what we are doing to tackle them is working.
Do you have any suggestions? Because ultimately it's going to be food safety that comes around to bite us on the bum, not animal welfare.
We (stalkers) are in a massively privileged position, being allowed to shoot, process and sell deer with only minimal legislation, and we should be doing all we can to preserve that. And be seen to be doing all we can.

 

[David Barker]

No, maybe mandatory training isn't the answer, but my point is that mandatory training is likely to be foisted upon us unless we tackle these problems from within and are able to demonstrate that what we are doing to tackle them is working.
Do you have any suggestions? Because ultimately it's going to be food safety that comes around to bite us on the bum, not animal welfare.
We (stalkers) are in a massively privileged position, being allowed to shoot, process and sell deer with only minimal legislation, and we should be doing all we can to preserve that.

So if i am shooting a deer and i dress it out and for some reason i am a manky f ecker and the animal is man handled badly then there is no fix as i am a manky fe cker with all my food. But if i am clean and tidy and the kitchen is clean as it should be (Wife's area) Then there is no need to worry. If i take my deer to a larder VD or AGHE then they w3ill inspect the deer at the entry point. They will then take the deer incinerate it and send the cost to me. Then maybe at that point a warning from NS could be sent out and advice on better carcase handling just like happened to the contactors a few years back. There is plenty that can be done mandatory is just to far and a means to line pockets of the industry £ 340 plus the added cost training manual 20 + rounds travel and in some cases digs. Its a rip off with no evidence to support we need it.

 

[VSS]

So if i am shooting a deer and i dress it out and for some reason i am a manky f ecker and the animal is man handled badly then there is no fix as i am a manky fe cker with all my food. But if i am clean and tidy and the kitchen is clean as it should be (Wife's area) Then there is no need to worry. If i take my deer to a larder VD or AGHE then they w3ill inspect the deer at the entry point. They will then take the deer incinerate it and send the cost to me. Then maybe at that point a warning from NS could be sent out and advice on better carcase handling just like happened to the contactors a few years back. There is plenty that can be done mandatory is just to far and a means to line pockets of the industry £ 340 plus the added cost training manual 20 + rounds travel and in some cases digs. Its a rip off with no evidence to support we need it.

I agree that AGHEs should charge a disposal fee to stalkers for any carcasses submitted that are not 100% up to the mark. To counterbalance that, they should be paying stalkers a premium price for well presented high-grade carcasses (ie, head shot, cleanly gralloched, prime animals).

I can pay £4/kg for in-skin fallow carcasses, and still show a tidy margin. But those carcasses have to be exactly as I want them, otherwise I'm just not interested. AGHEs should take the same approach, imo.

 

[David Barker]

Carcass presentation. As in, the appearance and general cleanliness of the carcass. Doesn't matter where it's going, AGHE or home consumption, it's still going into the food chain. And generally the standard isn't high enough. An AGHE can (in fact, should) turn carcasses away that aren't up to scratch, but no-one monitors the ones that are butchered for home consumption or for distribution among friends and family or given away on Facebook.
I would hate to see additional legislation or mandatory training being introduced to tackle this, but what other options are there to encourage stalkers to up their game in this respect?

The chap - an experienced stalker - who shot and gralloched this deer thought it was fine. I think (hope) you'll agree with me that he could do with some training, despite his years of experience and regardless of who's dinner plate it was going to end up on:

We all have story's that could upset people but if its mandatory do you think that would in fact improve the quality. The one in the picture a few years ago now

 

[VSS]

We all have story's that could upset people but if its mandatory do you think that would in fact improve the quality. The one in the picture a few years ago now

No picture?
No matter. Anyone who is supplying carcasses to an AGHE, or selling venison, has to be registered as a food business with their local authority (at least, that's the case in England and Wales. Not sure exactly how it works in Scotland). So, if you see poorly prepared, unhygienic carcasses being submitted to an AGHE or otherwise offered for sale, it would be a simple enough matter to report the offender to the local council, whereupon they would undoubtedly get an inspection visit.
Sounds harsh, but poor practice is potentially undermining everyone else's freedom. If we want to stave off mandatory training, then that's the sort of thing we'll have to do.

 

[Simon NZ]

A work on AI to detect facel matter on food;

https://www.veritide.com/the-technology/

Those who don't get paid tend to improve the best.