Approved witness payment
- Thread starter sikamalc
- Start date
csl
Administrator
You and @IanF were my AW's
... is there something we can do about this? i.e. a central 'pot' that people who want certification to DS2 can put a few quid into and then it get's divided between AWs to pay off their fees? It would need a minimum amount of clients, I'd have thought, but thoughts? 
Alex
I know 1 guy that it cost him £800, and it was his own ground!
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
I would have told the AW to F off and not bothered,
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Frank Homes
Well-Known Member
L2 required in virtually all commercial forestry leases.
Huntersforge
Well-Known Member
In all honesty it actually saddens me to see such a genuinely worthwhile award reduced to nothing more than a box ticking exercise. When I did my DSC2 many many years ago through the barony college my AW was @griff . Who was an absolute gentleman and fountain of knowledge. On completion I felt as if I had really earned something. This interaction with him gave me the drive and confidence to pursue a long spell with FCS as a contractor during that time became an AW ,to in some way repay or pay forward the kindness and sharing of knowledge that was shown to me.
There are probably as we debate here other training providers rubbing their hands at the possibility of the door being left slightly open to get a foot in. Good for them I say. We live in interesting times.
HF
There are probably as we debate here other training providers rubbing their hands at the possibility of the door being left slightly open to get a foot in. Good for them I say. We live in interesting times.
HF
sikamalc
Administrator
Well I have even received a PM from a member of this site who passed his Level 2 with me sometime back.
This gentleman has even offered to PAY for me to remain an AW.
I have graciously and politely declined, as I feel that DMQ and those of the hierarchy are without any real management skills or realisation of what they are doing.
But it goes to show that the members of this site are decent and honourable people.
My thanks to you all.
This gentleman has even offered to PAY for me to remain an AW.
I have graciously and politely declined, as I feel that DMQ and those of the hierarchy are without any real management skills or realisation of what they are doing.
But it goes to show that the members of this site are decent and honourable people.
My thanks to you all.
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
Feels like there are enough members of the SD, both previous and current AWs, to have an SD approved qualification passing down in-person training. Could be overseen / approved by a non-stalking training organisation perhaps one that does on-the-tools training (someone like nebosh although no idea if they even still exist!). I’m sure there are folk from that walk of life on here.
With enough respected members of the stalking community on here it might just get the box-ticking recognised by the big organisations that require level 2.
Pipe dream of course but it would be good to have some competition out there.
With enough respected members of the stalking community on here it might just get the box-ticking recognised by the big organisations that require level 2.
Pipe dream of course but it would be good to have some competition out there.
sikamalc
Administrator
As always Alex, through out the stalking we have done together in the past, it's been a pleasure.You and @IanF were my AW's
Alex
I will not be taking up any offers to re join as an AW.
As I mentioned in another thread, I am of the opinion that the management of DMQ is not fit for purpose, in my opinion. And at most it appears to be panic management at the best of times. Therefore I'm out.
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Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
That is the gentlemanly conduct that is vastly missing in today’s stalking world!
My Full compliments to the member.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
What became of the the old ‘DMQ’?
The AW’s went from ‘many’ to ‘few’;
First they f***’d up the test,
Then their enablers mess’d,
⁃ Now it’s hard to obtain Level Two…
‘Business model’ opinions aside,
Volunteers (hitherto) helped with pride;
Many gave their time freely;
It seems just too much really
That they now should be charg’d
So - it Died!
The AW’s went from ‘many’ to ‘few’;
First they f***’d up the test,
Then their enablers mess’d,
⁃ Now it’s hard to obtain Level Two…
‘Business model’ opinions aside,
Volunteers (hitherto) helped with pride;
Many gave their time freely;
It seems just too much really
That they now should be charg’d
So - it Died!
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
And when you think that plenty are wanting their DMQ2 so that it allows them to get onto professional contracts where they are then earning good money for every deer that they shoot. These guys are spending thousands on new shiny digital kit, payment charges on pickups etc etc. Yet bemoan the cost of qualifications etc.
When I did my DSC2 15 plus years ago in the days when three culls were required I certainly paid good money to my assessor to cover his time and costs.
When I did my DSC2 15 plus years ago in the days when three culls were required I certainly paid good money to my assessor to cover his time and costs.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Never a truer word
sikamalc
Administrator
Well since the first day I became an AW, I have never, ever charged for taking a candidate on. My only charges were for the outing fee, which I charge all clients, as it is my living. Other than that, the time it took on the old paper port folio was a good 90 to 120 minutes to fill in. The new system with one ICR, is a bit of a joke.
I have always looked upon it as a way to encourage, and help fellow stalkers, and young people wishing to learn, and to give a more professional foundation to deer stalking. The very essence of what DMQ should stand for. This seems to have been lost, and I fear this will only leave people to move to this PDS business, which from what I have seen is a real joke. But that's me being brutally honest.
Then we have the Assessors, many of whom are NOT FULL TIME DEER STALKERS. Some run an engineering works, some are driving instructors, and as I have mentioned even one internal verifier was an ext Tax Inspector. So much talent, it beggars belief!!
Assessors get paid £25 for every candidate they call regarding their Level 2. Approved Witnesses get F..k all. And yet we are the very people they rely on to watch and make sure the candidate is up to the mark. Some I know just joined being an AW for the kudos, but many have years of experience that would leave any of those running DMQ in the shade. So loosing good Aw's is now going to impact DMQ, and its appears from another post that resignations have already been given in by some of those on the DMQ board?
To many chiefs, not enough Indians?
The original concept of the Woodland and then subsequently the National Stalkers' Competency Certificates, which became DSC 1 was evolved in the same period as the Hungerford [Michael Ryan] killing spree. It was intended to be analogous to the Yatch Master's Certificate i.e. a certificate of competence making it easier or cheaper to gain insurance. The educationalists required it to become more robust statistically (numbers of multiple choice questions) and more bureaucratic as it was enlarged. In the same timeframe BASC were desperate to become more involved in stalking and so also became involved. DMQ emerged as the vehicle for that. It had input from the Colleges, the Red Deer Commission (before it became the Deer Commission Scotland) and other bodies. Yes it was, and is, bureaucratic and like so many things became as much about process as pragmatism.
Do I regret being involved at that stage? No, because I believed then and continue to believe that improvements in knowledge and practice are bound up with deer welfare. The ethos was that there is not one right way but that there are even more wrong ways and that presenting clean carcasses and encouraging venison consumption was likely to improve the price of our product. Two events conspired to keep the venison price low: the disintegration of the USSR meaning that Eastern Europe could obtain hard currency by selling their (larger per unit animal) carcasses into the market and then deer farming in New Zealand. The price has remained depressed. I mention this because I do believe deer welfare to be improved when the product is more valuable.
Was it designed as a money making operation? Emphatically NO originally, but like so many things it became less efficient at processing the information over time and computer systems and database software became better and more expensive. I was never on the Board of DMQ and @sikamalc is right to say "Too many chiefs...."
Do I regret being involved at that stage? No, because I believed then and continue to believe that improvements in knowledge and practice are bound up with deer welfare. The ethos was that there is not one right way but that there are even more wrong ways and that presenting clean carcasses and encouraging venison consumption was likely to improve the price of our product. Two events conspired to keep the venison price low: the disintegration of the USSR meaning that Eastern Europe could obtain hard currency by selling their (larger per unit animal) carcasses into the market and then deer farming in New Zealand. The price has remained depressed. I mention this because I do believe deer welfare to be improved when the product is more valuable.
Was it designed as a money making operation? Emphatically NO originally, but like so many things it became less efficient at processing the information over time and computer systems and database software became better and more expensive. I was never on the Board of DMQ and @sikamalc is right to say "Too many chiefs...."
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Really sad to hear. But unfortunately I think this is just the tip of the iceberg as regards Deerstalking. I am very afraid that is now longer about managing deer and deer stalking as know it, its now all about killing deer in as big numbers as possible and taking as much money as you can from all tax payer funded grants and initiatives. Grants to put up fences, grants for larders, grants for drones to survey etc etc etc.
Stalking as we knew it with well managed herds, top end funded by good fees for outings on the hill or woods for old trophy type stags or bucks. Stalking, along with fishing is completely ****ed and were the cornerstone of spotting lodges, hotels etc which all provided really good quality service and good jobs for the local economy.
Instead all these rewilding bollox is just littering the hillsides with fences (how much carbon does that release, drainage ditches being dug so trees don’t drown) and the villages now surviving on selling coffees to campervans doing the North West 500. Gone are the proper shops and now just tourist tat - most probably made in China.
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