The only fear is, if your selling loads, is that the game dealer gets an audit and they see that hes paid thousands of pounds to xyz, so they then have a look into xyz to make sure hes declaring it.
But I think it would have to be a fair amount.
Carcass Sales and Income Tax
- Thread starter Cranborne
- Start date
But I think it would have to be a fair amount.
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
As an extra on top of your normal income
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Its not how HMRC look at things, best not to find out the hard way, keeping accurate verifiable records is essential.
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure they dont go looking for tiny amounts.
Any body heard of beaters being checked for cash in hand?
if you are massivly on the fiddle may be.
Even if they made you have an assesment, start claiming for ammo, trousers, dog food, diesel
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
It doesn't work like that!
Believe me, I've had 1st hand experience of a tax investigation and come out on top, what you are suggesting will just land you with a massive tax assessment regardless of whether you owe anything or not!
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
I'll give you an actual example:
The tiny village shop near to me was investigated, they were honest people who weren't fiddling anything but were naive. The tax people on the face of it could find nothing wrong, but they were very sharp.
They asked the shopkeeper, an elderly lady past retirement age what happened to the out of date pies. Oh we eat those ourselves she carelessly said. Ah, said the taxman , an undeclared benefit in kind, this is where it got really serious for them, HMRC made an assessment of £ 32,000 outstanding tax on the strength of it, which in due course was haggled down to £ 4,000.
This came directly from the lady's son who I went to school with. Don't get careless with HMRC it can be very, very costly, no matter how trivial you might believe the sums involved are!
The tiny village shop near to me was investigated, they were honest people who weren't fiddling anything but were naive. The tax people on the face of it could find nothing wrong, but they were very sharp.
They asked the shopkeeper, an elderly lady past retirement age what happened to the out of date pies. Oh we eat those ourselves she carelessly said. Ah, said the taxman , an undeclared benefit in kind, this is where it got really serious for them, HMRC made an assessment of £ 32,000 outstanding tax on the strength of it, which in due course was haggled down to £ 4,000.
This came directly from the lady's son who I went to school with. Don't get careless with HMRC it can be very, very costly, no matter how trivial you might believe the sums involved are!
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Thats a buissness having a routine investigation.
Not an individual.
I fully accept buissness get audited.
I just dont beleive an individual that has a normal job should worry about a few deer sales.
The op said 20 roe a year i think, if thats 1 k a year how much can they be after? £500?
By all means keep every receipt, but i wouldnt worry
Recording non cash benefits is standard practice. Every bit of venison we consume in our own household is accounted for as a non cash receipt, as is every lamb I butcher for the freezer, every egg we consume from our own hens, and all the veg from the garden. And the expenses incurred in producing those items is all offset.
Your shop keeper friends obviously weren't very clued up!
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Nikki, the lass on our go-kart team, literally said, "If your name came up for an audit, we would first look at the fact that you have a reputable accountant submit your books/tax return, that you pay an average amount of tax as a self-employed carpenter/joiner and would not bother with an investigation unless someone had given the information that was of interest to them. I was considering insurance to cover the cost at my end of an investigation if I had one dropped on me at the time.
GF got caught up in a full-blown HMRC investigation. Her sister had two businesses registered at her address, she also had my GF business registered there. Sister-in-law made a small blunder on some paperwork, nothing nefarious, just a mistake. It was a week-long investigation with HMRC going over all three businesses with a fine-tooth comb. Having their accountant down from London for the week was costly
GF got caught up in a full-blown HMRC investigation. Her sister had two businesses registered at her address, she also had my GF business registered there. Sister-in-law made a small blunder on some paperwork, nothing nefarious, just a mistake. It was a week-long investigation with HMRC going over all three businesses with a fine-tooth comb. Having their accountant down from London for the week was costly
Not the place to shout about it though
Pard 007
Well-Known Member
Say nowt to nobody keep it cash, some folks claim for this & that & milk the system. Think as a paye individual I pay enough taxes so for beating money little cash jobs venison money ( mostly paid in Shiraz or single Malt) Like somebody said can't see HMRC chasing somebody for the cost of 20 Roe. Plus when I tip a stalking guide I wouldn't expect him to put it through the books, it's for him. NOT Rachel from accountants 
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Personally I'd obey the rules, up to £1k no notification required t/o over 1k notify them and keep a careful log of transactions, the worry comes with the little brown envelope that tells you that they "just want to check" that your tax bill is correct.
In fact what this means is every bit of both personal & work spending that you have done over "N" number of years will be subject to very close scrutiny down to the nearest pound.
As far as HMRC are concerned anything that falls outside of the scope of welfare benefits and PAYE warrants their attention, they will not be able to determine whether its 20 roe or 200+ or a few days beating until they've investigated.
A flippant "they won't be bothered with little old me" approach cuts no ice with HMRC once they get stuck into you but I'd guess that some people just have to learn that one the hard way and risk paying for taxes that in reality they don't really owe.
j09
Member
As an accountant, it always amuses me when people think they won’t get caught by HMRC if they’re trading above the trading allowance (the aforementioned £1,000).
With the rollout of Making Tax Digital for Income Tax, quarterly reporting will apply to virtually every sole trader by 2028, and partnerships will follow. Add to that HMRC’s ability to access bank account information where there is reason to suspect undeclared income, and the net is tightening.
Nearly every game dealer you sell deer carcasses to will be VAT registered, which means they're already submitting regular returns showing where their money comes from and where it's going. It doesn't take much for HMRC to cross-reference those records against what you've declared.
The reality is that many people who think they can get away with underreporting income will eventually get caught.
But that’s fine by me - keep paying my wages when that tax investigation lands on your doorstep!
With the rollout of Making Tax Digital for Income Tax, quarterly reporting will apply to virtually every sole trader by 2028, and partnerships will follow. Add to that HMRC’s ability to access bank account information where there is reason to suspect undeclared income, and the net is tightening.
Nearly every game dealer you sell deer carcasses to will be VAT registered, which means they're already submitting regular returns showing where their money comes from and where it's going. It doesn't take much for HMRC to cross-reference those records against what you've declared.
The reality is that many people who think they can get away with underreporting income will eventually get caught.
But that’s fine by me - keep paying my wages when that tax investigation lands on your doorstep!
And remember if you do start declaring you’ve only just started,A company I know of ran a fleet of coaches on red diesel for years a new manager started and put a stop to it ran them on white diesel and it showed up on their tax returns they got investigated and it bankrupted them.
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Thats story sounds like the correct outcome
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
I doubt HMRC has the manpower to investigate the sale of a few roe carcasses. The gain wouldn't be worth the pain. Heck, they can't even stop the VAT fraud within the building industry.
Besides, we are all generally completely honest folks in the shooting community.
Besides, we are all generally completely honest folks in the shooting community.
You think HMRC are going to give a toss about semantics on a bit bit of paper that probably has no legal standing anyway? They'll look at the facts and not that you're fabricated your own loophole. Just saying.
j09
Member
What people seem to be forgetting is that, while HMRC may not have had the manpower in the past to investigate every penny moving through people's accounts, that landscape is changing rapidly.
With advances in AI, combined with initiatives such as Making Tax Digital (MTD) for Income Tax, it will take only moments to analyse millions of records and identify discrepancies between reported income and the information available to HMRC.
We're already seeing AI being used to detect inconsistencies in VAT returns, and the reality is that this technology is only going to become more sophisticated and more capable over time. The days of relying on limited resources as a safeguard against scrutiny are quickly coming to an end.
You can “word your permission slips properly”, call them donations, contributions, or interpretive dance receipts if you like - if it's taxable income and it isn't declared, that's the bit HMRC will be interested in.
With advances in AI, combined with initiatives such as Making Tax Digital (MTD) for Income Tax, it will take only moments to analyse millions of records and identify discrepancies between reported income and the information available to HMRC.
We're already seeing AI being used to detect inconsistencies in VAT returns, and the reality is that this technology is only going to become more sophisticated and more capable over time. The days of relying on limited resources as a safeguard against scrutiny are quickly coming to an end.
You can “word your permission slips properly”, call them donations, contributions, or interpretive dance receipts if you like - if it's taxable income and it isn't declared, that's the bit HMRC will be interested in.
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