.243 to .223, purely for fox 🤔

[Smellydog]

I would have absolutely no idea, much like anyone else.

However I believe there must be some truth in lead effecting the fertility of birds of prey if not actually killing them.
I come to believe this because I have customers willing to pay silly money for Rabbits and Squirrels that are shot with non toxic bullets and pellets.
Half a dozen to 8, full grown whole Rabbits bring as much as a Roe Doe will from a game dealer.
I don't know if these customers are just being overly careful or not. They tell me any lead fed to their birds would be catastrophic.
Who am I to question their knowledge on the keeping, and breeding of birds of prey.
It's all good business for me.

Yes but that assumes that every single wild bird consumes lead, they don't.
Also, despite lead ammunitions birds of prey and scavengers are NOT in decline. They are increasing.
Using captive birds as a model is not reasonable.

 

[kevtherev]

Have a look at the Virtus precision copper it works well in my .243
I also home load nosler 55g ballistic tip for foxes very fast round and does the job.

 

[shakey jake]

@seedawood - A quick google search of eagles eating foxes will bring up a number of different articles showing that golden and sea eagles have been found to have remains of foxes in their nest.

Eagles are perfectly capable of catching, killing and carrying foxes back to nests. They are are also big carrion eaters. Rather than expending lots of energy carrying a fox, they would probably just eat it where it lies, fill up their crop and fly back with a crop full for their chicks.

Eagle carrying a fox? Is that fact or just made up?

 

[25 Sharps]

Morning all,

I'm looking for feedback from anyone using the .223 for foxing on open ground pushing out to 250–300 yards (not always possible to get closer/engineer a shot)

I currently use a .243 with 75gr V-MAX, which is a hammer on foxes. However, with the HSE lead ban looming for calibers over 6.17mm, I’m considering a move to .223 to stay lead-legal for vermin without the headache.

Other drivers for the switch:

• NV White-out: My .243 flash blinds my Alpex 4K for a second, making it hard to spot impacts, is the .223 better in this regard???
• Frugality: Cheaper to run for high-volume nights and less wear on the barrel. (Handload the .243 for deer with copper. But not for foxing)
• Signature: Looking for a lower muzzle report and less recoil to stay on target, especially when I have multiple foxes out.

My concerns:
The Welsh hills aren't known for being still. How does the .223 compare to the 6mm for knockdown and wind drift at those 300-yard boundaries? Are you finding it "enough" gun when the weather isn't playing ball?

I am completely happy with the .243 for smaller deer and I have a fantastic TTSX load for that purpose!

I am also happy that I have a perfectly justifiable reason to aquire if I go down this route! And will be putting in for "All lawful quarry" as per all my other rifles. Just added a further 2 sheep farms to the permission for pre lambing thin out and continued overwatch during!

Cheers in advance for any insights.

I’m using a .223 ackley reliably for those ranges, I’ve run it at standard .223 velocities and works fine in all weather, including west wales!

 

[Heym SR20]

Eagle carrying a fox? Is that fact or just made up?

Try doing some research- its not difficult. You might be surprised by the results.

 

[Strike]

Morning all,

I'm looking for feedback from anyone using the .223 for foxing on open ground pushing out to 250–300 yards (not always possible to get closer/engineer a shot)

I currently use a .243 with 75gr V-MAX, which is a hammer on foxes. However, with the HSE lead ban looming for calibers over 6.17mm, I’m considering a move to .223 to stay lead-legal for vermin without the headache.

Other drivers for the switch:

• NV White-out: My .243 flash blinds my Alpex 4K for a second, making it hard to spot impacts, is the .223 better in this regard???
• Frugality: Cheaper to run for high-volume nights and less wear on the barrel. (Handload the .243 for deer with copper. But not for foxing)
• Signature: Looking for a lower muzzle report and less recoil to stay on target, especially when I have multiple foxes out.

My concerns:
The Welsh hills aren't known for being still. How does the .223 compare to the 6mm for knockdown and wind drift at those 300-yard boundaries? Are you finding it "enough" gun when the weather isn't playing ball?

I am completely happy with the .243 for smaller deer and I have a fantastic TTSX load for that purpose!

I am also happy that I have a perfectly justifiable reason to aquire if I go down this route! And will be putting in for "All lawful quarry" as per all my other rifles. Just added a further 2 sheep farms to the permission for pre lambing thin out and continued overwatch during!

Cheers in advance for any insights.

90% of my shooting is in, on and around the Brecon Beacons. I use .243 Sako 8 twist 75 or 87grn vmax homeloads, I can go to non lead with this when I have to. I also regularly shoot my tikka .204 using 32grn vmax homeloads, 200m zero. Brilliant round and less affected by wind than one might think. Its capable of 300m+ when I get my bit right. Some foxes run, not many, generally in a wide circle, then drop. I understand that beyond 200m it will out perform a .223 as it has a much better bc.
I will stick with the .243 and .204 they cover most of my shooting.

 

[shakey jake]

Try doing some research- its not difficult. You might be surprised by the results.

Ive seen a golden kill a fox, just read and they carry about their own body weight, i guess cubs would fit the bill.
Have you seen it happen?

 

[Heym SR20]

Ive seen a golden kill a fox, just read and they carry about their own body weight, i guess cubs would fit the bill.
Have you seen it happen?

No I haven’t seen a golden take a fox. I have seen them worrying red deer calves. In Africa I did see an eagle, I think a martial take a duiker sized antelope - about size of muntjac. There are plenty of reports of fox remains in eagle nests.

 

[Fudge1187]

.223 at those ranges works well, drops them nicely. Great glass and a 223 has always done me well

 

[KentCountryGent]

Seconding others who've commented, I use the 55gr Hornady V-Max running at around 3300fps and it is very effective out to 300 (and occasionally beyond). Hardly any recoil either compared with .243

 

[Brad93]

Is there anyone you can go out with locally who has a .223 you can try?

 

[farrieral]

Is there anyone you can go out with locally who has a .223 you can try?

My good pal has one, he seems to have more runners with the 223... I'm yet to decide will have a serious think on it after lambing time!

 

[Chris Richardson]

its funny that, becuase ive never seen so many birds of prey on shooting estates still using lead and everyone I speak to says theyre thriving , indeed on one estate i stalk on the red kite population is thriving and lead is used exclusively... kind of flies in the face of that theory doesnt it

No reply … how odd

 

[Smellydog]

My good pal has one, he seems to have more runners with the 223... I'm yet to decide will have a serious think on it after lambing time!

That's nothing to do with it being a 223.

 

[farrieral]

That's nothing to do with it being a 223.

You read between the lines there... it was a little joke at my pals expense

 

[Smellydog]

Lots of folk forget a crucial element of influence on a bullets performance.
The rifling.
One rifle can turn a game bullet into and an explosive varmint bullet and another cause the bullet to perform as originally intended.

A change of bullet or barrel can make the difference.

 

[Memphis]

its funny that, becuase ive never seen so many birds of prey on shooting estates still using lead and everyone I speak to says theyre thriving , indeed on one estate i stalk on the red kite population is thriving and lead is used exclusively... kind of flies in the face of that theory doesnt it

Same on our estate we all use lead but now have a massive population of Buzzards and the Red Kites are up to 15 pairs this year, also other raptors including Peregrine Falcon, we also have a full list of Owls, including long ear, and little owl, and all the lads that shoot rats with lead pellets leave them out for them and have always done so

 

[Jeebs]

I love my .243 and over the past few weeks have had some great success with it, however I’ve put a variation in for a .22centrefire for foxing. Whether it be .22cm, .223 or .22-250 or whatever else takes my fancy within the .22 bracket.

My reasoning is the proximity to housing/businesses on one of my permissions and the incoming lead ban. Even with a decent mod the .243 has quite the report and I don’t want to be alarming the “neighbours” and I don’t see fox being worthy of the extra cost of non toxic.

I’m in close proximity to businesses with late licenses, and over the past few weeks have noticed when I take a shot, all of a sudden the chatter I can hear on the wind goes veeeery quiet. I just don’t need the attention and don’t want to cause disruption.

My .243 will still be coming out, I just feel it might not always be the most appropriate tool for the job.

 

[mario]

i'll throw my 2 pence worth in on this one always happy to start a riot....

just honest opinions... I'm luck enough to have access to a lot of calibers, that being said...

used a lot different rifles over the years, my own and friends/other keepers etc... all with their pro's and cons.

just a couple...
.243...... fantastic round! would i buy another purely for foxing.... debatable with the impending lead ban and cost of ammo these days if in volume
.270... great cal... good fun. still one of my favourites... yes call me old fashioned haha, hard hitting and great ballistics... very expensive to shoot these days though... and quite noisy for built up areas, a little more recoil if that bothers you...

i currently run my .223 ( factory 55gn v-max as cant run anything heavier with current twist rate) as my primary foxing round for a number of reasons.... however.... would i change it.... YES....
had more runners with this round than any other I've used, ( you can say poor shot placement... or rushed shots...whatever....even direct heart/lung hits some have made it as far as 100 yards or lost to dense forestry etc.)
don't get me wrong, this is an ideal round for a lot of shooters and very inexpensive to run... but far less forgiving imo If you're consistently on large open planes, thick woodland, windy areas... id consider something else.

ill be looking to head back to a 22-250 very soon. never should have changed. personally it suits me a lot better for whatever reasons they may be, a lot less fuss and a lot more BANG .

 

[25 Sharps]

i'll throw my 2 pence worth in on this one always happy to start a riot....

just honest opinions... I'm luck enough to have access to a lot of calibers, that being said...

used a lot different rifles over the years, my own and friends/other keepers etc... all with their pro's and cons.

just a couple...
.243...... fantastic round! would i buy another purely for foxing.... debatable with the impending lead ban and cost of ammo these days if in volume
.270... great cal... good fun. still one of my favourites... yes call me old fashioned haha, hard hitting and great ballistics... very expensive to shoot these days though... and quite noisy for built up areas, a little more recoil if that bothers you...

i currently run my .223 ( factory 55gn v-max as cant run anything heavier with current twist rate) as my primary foxing round for a number of reasons.... however.... would i change it.... YES....
had more runners with this round than any other I've used, ( you can say poor shot placement... or rushed shots...whatever....even direct heart/lung hits some have made it as far as 100 yards or lost to dense forestry etc.)
don't get me wrong, this is an ideal round for a lot of shooters and very inexpensive to run... but far less forgiving imo If you're consistently on large open planes, thick woodland, windy areas... id consider something else.

ill be looking to head back to a 22-250 very soon. never should have changed. personally it suits me a lot better for whatever reasons they may be, a lot less fuss and a lot more BANG .

I get very, very few runners with the .223 AI amd 50 gr v-max combination, I can’t actually think of any!