Asked for evidence of competency... Is this normal?

[badmolassesaccident]

You can be sure if something goes wrong and it ends up with some hapless member of the public’s brain being sprayed all over the ground, then picked up by people in hazmat suits with tweezers putting bits of brain in a plastic bag….. well you can be sure that the circumstances of how the bullet ended up where it did will be looked at in the minutest detail. This includes why the FEO recommended them as suitable to possess firearms.

As it stands, there is no legislated requirement for firearms safety training for field shooting. Someone can never have touched a gun before and get a licence to purchase a 308, which is lethal at 3 miles if you £&@£ it up.

I’d be wanting some evidence of some firearms training. Look at the many YouTube gun fail videos from the US about what happens when people who haven’t used guns before, just get them and start shootings at stuff.

 

[willie_gunn]

People starting out down the shooting path could do with an organization that would help them gain the experience to be a safe shot, and have the chance to do some range time with logged tuition, it may get a few more into the hobby and help the decline in numbers hold SGC and FAC. It would need to be easy to access.

Something like a Range Day, perhaps?

East Anglia - The British Deer Society

East AngliaBranch information and events Photo by: Christopher KeeleyFIND OUT MORE THE BDS EAST ANGLIA BRANCH Information on the British Deer Society (BDS) East Anglia branch including events, contacts, and news. Branch AREA and committee BRANCH CONTACTS Chair Mark Thackstone...

bds.org.uk

SATURDAY 11TH FEBRUARY 2023 RANGE DAY FROM 9:00 AM AND AGM FROM 1:00 PM​

 

[Bo Diddley]

Something like a Range Day, perhaps?

East Anglia - The British Deer Society

East AngliaBranch information and events Photo by: Christopher KeeleyFIND OUT MORE THE BDS EAST ANGLIA BRANCH Information on the British Deer Society (BDS) East Anglia branch including events, contacts, and news. Branch AREA and committee BRANCH CONTACTS Chair Mark Thackstone...

bds.org.uk

SATURDAY 11TH FEBRUARY 2023 RANGE DAY FROM 9:00 AM AND AGM FROM 1:00 PM​

I'll forward it to my nephew. He's looking to get his fac and join the Stalking community and a rifle club. He is finding it's a chicken or the egg situation, the local rifle club are not interested in members unless you have an Fac already. He has stalked with his dad already. Thanks for the link.

 

[Bo Diddley]

Should the old keepers that have been working for 35 years need to go do DSC1 for their renewal?

Exactly what my brother was saying at the weekend. He has shot and processed more deer than most folks have had hot dinners, but no DSC1.
He is adamant that he will never do it, his reasoning is that having been keepering either full-time or part-time and having worked in the butchery trade for the first 8 years of his working life he probably knows more than most about the whys & why not.
Personally, I told him to just get it done... who knows what paperwork we will be required to produce down the line to keep shooting deer.

 

[badmolassesaccident]

^ Most rifle clubs will be glad of new, novice, members. That club may be at capacity (ie too many members for their facilities). Or they might just suck.

 

[willie_gunn]

I'll forward it to my nephew. He's looking to get his fac and join the Stalking community and a rifle club. He is finding it's a chicken or the egg situation, the local rifle club are not interested in members unless you have an Fac already. He has stalked with his dad already. Thanks for the link.

You're very welcome.

Even if you're not a member of BDS, it is worth keeping an eye on the news from the local branches. They do run a good number of events that may be of interest to your nephew, particularly as he's starting out on his stalking journey.

I know that it can, even as an adult, sometimes seem intimidating approaching what appears to be a bunch of people who are apparently all old friends and muckers, but my experience is that the BDS branches are very welcoming to newcomers. If your nephew is interested in tomorrow's range day, perhaps get him to drop an email to Steve Houghton first - he's the chair of East Anglia branch and his email is on the website link above. That way your nephew will know there is someone there who's looking out to welcome him.

 

[gixer1]

Exactly what my brother was saying at the weekend. He has shot and processed more deer than most folks have had hot dinners, but no DSC1.
He is adamant that he will never do it, his reasoning is that having been keepering either full-time or part-time and having worked in the butchery trade for the first 8 years of his working life he probably knows more than most about the whys & why not.
Personally, I told him to just get it done... who knows what paperwork we will be required to produce down the line to keep shooting deer.

After the DSC, there will be others…like this shotgun safety thing (first I’ve heard of that!)…next it’ll be, you need air rifle safety, reloading safety, ammunition storage 1….then ammunition storage 2 (for shotgun ammo)…..they will not stop until the hoops to jump through are so vast that many people don’t bother.

My thread on multiple rifles of the same chambering was due to a friend getting a visit from an FEO who stated that no one will be getting multiple duplicate chamberings anymore…he also stated that “not even game keepers are allowed 120 rounds of ammo for a 243….”

I recommended my friend (who shoots game, goes stalking, controls vermin and competes in club level competition) gets the refusal in writing and then takes it to his shooting org so they can tear it apart.

 

[Basil H]

The Firearms Awareness courses advertised on this site by BASC are exactly what a beginner requires, offering training and range time with a variety of rifles.

 

[Bowland blades]

You can be sure if something goes wrong and it ends up with some hapless member of the public’s brain being sprayed all over the ground, then picked up by people in hazmat suits with tweezers putting bits of brain in a plastic bag….. well you can be sure that the circumstances of how the bullet ended up where it did will be looked at in the minutest detail. This includes why the FEO recommended them as suitable to possess firearms.

As it stands, there is no legislated requirement for firearms safety training for field shooting. Someone can never have touched a gun before and get a licence to purchase a 308, which is lethal at 3 miles if you £&@£ it up.

I’d be wanting some evidence of some firearms training. Look at the many YouTube gun fail videos from the US about what happens when people who haven’t used guns before, just get them and start shootings at stuff.

There isnt a statuary but in guidance to police it certainly mentions the prospective FAC holders experience or lack of should be considered . It certainly get a heck of a lot easier after 20 plus years of renewals and grants . I think that is of course quite correct !
Every accident , every fruit loop on a rampage , etc is a nail in our coffin - never the numpties who granted the licence ! The biggest star in my book was me packing in my licences in my 20s when i was too busy to actually use the guns .

 

[Franchi Matt]

I had to get a letter of competency for my SGC grant about 10 years ago, my clay instructor did it for me, she said it was something she had been asked to do before.
I did have a past incident where I was arrested after being attacked by my ex wifes sister and her clan - it got messy and a group of us was arrested- me icluded. The next morning I paid the £80 fine for whatever it was, six months later in court the truth and CCTV footage came to light and I was found innocent through self defence. But I guess the fixed fine of a late night town arrest was what the FEO was first alerted too.

 

[Ratel]

Us Norfolk boys can shoot just fine... take that comment back sir... it helps that we all have six fingers & two thumbs on each hand

Got to be webbed though.

 

[Liveonce]

in Kent I have witnessed a new applicant for shotgun certificates being made to attended a shotgun safety course at a local commercial clay ground the police have arrangements with. Despite the applicant have shot as a guest many times at another clay club. I told them to write to the Chief Constable and ask for their £100 course fee back. I did tell at the time BASC about what was going on but what they did or did not do about I am not sure.
Trouble is if you want the certificate you just ask how high when the police tell you to jump, in this case it was suggested to him he would not get his certificate unless completing the safety course.

Due to the wording of the 1968 firearms act the Chief Constable is empowered to do what ever they like to ensure you are a fit and proper person to own firearms and the HOG being non statutory has not changed that.

 

[Rake Aboot]

View attachment 294168

How very Facebook of you.

I take it you’re happy enough with blatant inconsistency and a lack of knowledge from the people who decide whether you get an fac?

I know you aren’t though , no one would or should be . It’s getting beyond a joke

 

[Tazz]

Ask him where this requirement is written in the Home Office Guidance, let him bs you for a minute or two and then give him the letter

Alternatively with a view to getting off on a positive footing, miss out the “Questioning” bit and give him the letter and show him your DSC1 that includes a nationally recognised shooting test. I get the point that the FEO is “making it up” to a degree but if you are keen to get your ticket and you’re asked to dance, get dancing. Other opinions will follow

 

[Liveonce]

Alternatively with a view to getting off on a positive footing, miss out the “Questioning” bit and give him the letter and show him your DSC1 that includes a nationally recognised shooting test. I get the point that the FEO is “making it up” to a degree but if you are keen to get your ticket and you’re asked to dance, get dancing. Other opinions will follow

exactly they say jump we just ask how high as in reality we have no other choice.

 

[Tazz]

exactly they say jump we just ask how high as in reality we have no other choice.

Exactly, principles are fine but getting your ticket is more important especially the first one and everything that brings

 

[badmolassesaccident]

Sounds like OP had not advised about DSC1 at the time FEO asked for evidence of competence. The DSC should solve the problem. There is no indication that DSC is going to become compulsory, just evidence that a new applicant has some safety familiarity with firearms.

The requirement is much much less onerous for field shooting than it is for an FAC grant based on target shooting.

 

[shakey jake]

id ask what qualifications some one needs to witness you?

 

[long_range_rob]

I would respond with “Unfortunately Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the second has passed on and as it was under her auspices that I was trained to shoot then I’m not sure that a letter to cover this would be available.”

 

[TH4]

This looks to be the norm across most forces now.

Only because idiots let them do it unfortunately