BASC response to proposed Scottish deer management changes

Heym SR20 said:
I suspect that in a few decades time there will huge efforts to reintroduce deer - once iconic species into the UK.

We did it with many other species in the UK.

Most birds of prey, and many of the predatory animal species were all effectively extinct in very large parts of the UK all within most our lifetimes. Many others were gone well before our lifetimes.

And it really doesn’t take much before a population gets to a point where it crashes and is non sustainable. But I think sadly that is what many on SD seem to want, along with government agencies.
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Dinna fash yersel, there are TWO MILLION DEER - based on what dodgy data - causing hysteria.

The new national deer strategy - Kill ‘em all, if it’s brown it’s down.

There must be no critical thinking or dissent from the government line.
 
I dont think deer will ever really fizzle there Is quite honestly too many, and not enough stalkers and that will always exist as it becomes harder and harder to get a FAC
 
Heym SR20 said:
Given the cost of most image intensifying rifle scopes along with hand held image intensifiers, I am sure that many do indeed just have a rifle mounted one and it is used for scanning as well as shooting.

And its only a matter of time before an image in the intensifier is a person that is mistaken for a deer.

I recently posted about the high rate of hunter deaths in New Zealand where there have been several accidents where a hunter has shot a fellow hunter in the belief that he was a deer. And these are all in broad daylight.

In Scotland we have a right to roam and there are now people everywhere at all times of night and day. And wild camping and bushcraft is the next big thing since lockdown. And nowhere is more than a few hours from a road, even less so with electric assisted mountain bikes.
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That's a bit stretch.

Again. The same could be said of standard telescopic sights.
 
There seems to be some confusion about what a thermal or nv scope does.

It is NOT some mystical device that removes the sound of the gunshot it’s simply another means of viewing an intended target / management species.

Yes it will probably enable more Roe in the central belt to be culled given their already pretty minimal response to a spotlight but in the confines of the forest you’ll probably find the the flight response to the sound of the gunshot kicks in the same as it does now in the spotlight and the deer will not be hanging around to see what the sound is.

Fish in a barrel it ain’t.

Thermal is pretty much an essential tool in modern day deer management and its important legislation is reflective of that.

Arguably if we do not consider all technologies that promotes shooting as the primary deer management tool it adds weight to consideration of other deer management tools such as 1080 implemented in NZ.

Remember that just like NZ we have a Green Party with a seat at the top table.
 
@theroedeerguy said:
There seems to be some confusion about what a thermal or nv scope does.

It is NOT some mystical device that removes the sound of the gunshot it’s simply another means of viewing an intended target / management species.

Yes it will probably enable more Roe in the central belt to be culled given their already pretty minimal response to a spotlight but in the confines of the forest you’ll probably find the the flight response to the sound of the gunshot kicks in the same as it does now in the spotlight and the deer will not be hanging around to see what the sound is.

Fish in a barrel it ain’t.

Thermal is pretty much an essential tool in modern day deer management and its important legislation is reflective of that.

Arguably if we do not consider all technologies that promotes shooting as the primary deer management tool it adds weight to consideration of other deer management tools such as 1080 implemented in NZ.

Remember that just like NZ we have a Green Party with a seat at the top table.
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Please write more posts as I was giving up the reason to live, at last the messiah 👍👍👍 and that’s a big seriously from me 🙂
 
David Barker said:
I think shooting a few Fallow on open fields a wee bit different to shoot thousands of Red and Roe over some of the roughest terrain the uk has. Most deer will be shot on clear fells with thick brash and small spindly trees. Also the scope use i assume would have been the best money can by not the cheap nasty Chinese copys that are coming to the market. We also dont have good assess to them super dogs that you English chaps have.
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I suspect he was talking about black and white things, but if you want to turn it into a cock off carry on…..
 
StephenToast said:
That's a bit stretch.

Again. The same could be said of standard telescopic sights.
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i dunnoe ...... i agree with what he says regarding people mistaking target species for other items...... already had a local lad shooting foxes on golf courses thinking they were rabbits with thermal ...golf course didn't want foxes shot..... and as for the bit about wild camping and bushcraft ..yup ..i do myself and often worry about it form the other side of the coin. & its definitely grown in popularity
....im seeing folk at night where we never used to see them etc ..... for me a thermal is as much a safety device as anything....I've had personally folk I've picked up with thermal i would never have spotted with binos.

cost will have some folk scanning with one device ...& unfortunately there are folks with firearms who i wouldn't let loose mowing my lawn!

was there not a case few years back of a guy shot in lung / chest in uk by folk out lamping?

Paul
 
David Barker said:
Its impossible to work to that strategy in an area so fragmented. The legislation being put forward by Government will only help remove stags from large estates. This could be the plan !!. FLS SNH/Nature.scot have followed the shoot on sight policy for 20 years now with everything they can throw at deer in scotland. It does not work and to add more tools to the box (Thermal)will not help .It will only make the tool box heavier and more expensive. As was stated by the lowland panel the only way to reduce numbers medium to long turm is to be specific on what is shot and at what time. That cant be done in a lamp nor can it be done at distance with a thermal. (****ING IN TO THE WIND) Remove one male roe deer and you remove one animal. Remove a femal and you remove one female and the potential to produce 16 + more deer long term
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Removing males in my experience has a greater knock on effect than most realise. Shot males heavily in the summer and the result was devastating for the females, most weren't pregnant and the cull figures plummeted, the only upside was the weights increased, still to this day(5years ago) the beat has never recovered fully.
 
griff said:
Removing males in my experience has a greater knock on effect than most realise. Shot males heavily in the summer and the result was devastating for the females, most weren't pregnant and the cull figures plummeted, the only upside was the weights increased, still to this day(5years ago) the beat has never recovered fully.
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What a crock of ( S it) lmao Griff ) One male will cover multiple females. Maybe FLS should employ you to lower the deer numbers on the NFE. I can see it now lets all kill male deer the females will all become Baron !
 
David Barker said:
What a crock of ( S it) lmao Griff ) One male will cover multiple females. Maybe FLS should employ you to lower the deer numbers on the NFE. I can see it now lets all kill male deer the females will all become Baron !
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Your the one that talks Sh!t.
If the aim is to drastically reduce numbers there should be no seasons at all , shoot on sight policy .
Please don't tell me numbers increase when thousands are shot ffs
 
Anyone know If day time shooting with thermals will become legal even without the license or are we unsure at this current moment?
 
Sol said:
Anyone know If day time shooting with thermals will become legal even without the license or are we unsure at this current moment?
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There’s no proposed legislative changes for that at present that I have seen.

The proposed use of nv and thermal relates solely to its use in conjunction with a night control authorisation.

Here’s a link to the proposed changes to the 1985 order

The Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2023

This Order amends articles 3 and 5 of the Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985.
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk
 
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