First Time on the Hill
- Thread starter Chasey
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Highlandsjohn
Well-Known Member
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Just to add for clothing/trousers those base layer tight like things are excellent, for a while at work I just wore cheap supermarket jeans with those tights below and after 2pm rarely bothered putting my waterproof trousers on, the jeans would be absolutely soaked/cold but the base layer kept the moisture and cold away from ur skin so were quite comfortable.
Just remember base layers and thermals may look the same but are NOT!! (a well meaning Christmas present)
But base layer tops are also a godsend in the worst weather if u forget ur jacket again take the coldness away from ur skin so not too miserable.
And I would be lost walking a hill without a stick, I wouldn't bring a set of shooting sticks but a proper shepherd crook or hazel stick, as has been said makes a world of difference going over real rough stuff or up/down a steep face.
I don't think its any coincidence that u rarely see a shepherd or keeper (esp hill keepers) without a stick. Doesn't have to be fancy just a piece of cut hazel from the day before does just as well
I loaned mine out the other afternoon to a young boy who was crippled with blisters at the grouse (and keeper still making him walk to the top of the hill to b a flanker) and i went A over T twice going throu stuff I usually breeze never think about with my extra leg/stick
Just remember base layers and thermals may look the same but are NOT!! (a well meaning Christmas present)
But base layer tops are also a godsend in the worst weather if u forget ur jacket again take the coldness away from ur skin so not too miserable.
And I would be lost walking a hill without a stick, I wouldn't bring a set of shooting sticks but a proper shepherd crook or hazel stick, as has been said makes a world of difference going over real rough stuff or up/down a steep face.
I don't think its any coincidence that u rarely see a shepherd or keeper (esp hill keepers) without a stick. Doesn't have to be fancy just a piece of cut hazel from the day before does just as well
I loaned mine out the other afternoon to a young boy who was crippled with blisters at the grouse (and keeper still making him walk to the top of the hill to b a flanker) and i went A over T twice going throu stuff I usually breeze never think about with my extra leg/stick
Hi
I've been using Nomad breeks for 6/7 years now and I find them spot on. I don't boil and I don't freeze in them and can still kneel in a puddle to do a gralloch without getting me knees wet. The smocks a belter too.
All a bit pricey but they have been worth it to me over the years.
regards
Alan
I've been using Nomad breeks for 6/7 years now and I find them spot on. I don't boil and I don't freeze in them and can still kneel in a puddle to do a gralloch without getting me knees wet. The smocks a belter too.
All a bit pricey but they have been worth it to me over the years.
regards
Alan
A faster cartridge longer zero and a bit of practice. Multiple shots at a scattering group won't lend itself to twiddle scopes. There's bound to be a reason why the estates .270 is zeroed at 200m with an 8x56 scope Not many preferred shots happen past the 200m mark after such a long walk up a hill we aim 
for a successful outcome.
for a successful outcome. A faster cartridge longer zero and a bit of practice. Multiple shots at a scattering group won't lend itself to twiddle scopes. There's bound to be a reason why the estates .270 is zeroed at 200m with an 8x56 scope Not many preferred shots happen past the 200m mark after such a long walk up a hill we aim
That confirms what I thought. 200 to 250 is probably max you'd be expected to shoot.
S&L7x57
Well-Known Member
I take my hat off to those whose confidence allows them to take shots on the hill at over 200. I also question the ethics unless circumstances make it imperative.
I have never had any problem in getting within 160 of any animal I have stalked but then perhaps my brown fur and four legs help me somehow.
Seriously, 99% of the fun is getting in closest and pitting yourself against the deer's fantastic senses. It is not about bragging about shots that should principally be kept to the range and punching paper.
This whole thread is about advice for a first time on the hill, not about what those with many years of experience can achieve when the need arises.
I have never had any problem in getting within 160 of any animal I have stalked but then perhaps my brown fur and four legs help me somehow.
Seriously, 99% of the fun is getting in closest and pitting yourself against the deer's fantastic senses. It is not about bragging about shots that should principally be kept to the range and punching paper.
This whole thread is about advice for a first time on the hill, not about what those with many years of experience can achieve when the need arises.
I have read the replies to the O.P. with interest a lot of good advice from various posters , if I may I will add some of my thoughts while not claiming to have all the answers my thoughts on the subject come from being employed as a Highland stalker for much of my working life.
Clothing as others have said tweed is hard to better, while not waterproof it is water resistant ,plus 4s rather than plus 2s
or somewhere in between if you don't like them to long, a couple of reasons for this if you have to crawl when you stand up the wet area should no longer be on your knee but hanging somewhat below it a proper pair of plus 4s should be baggy enough to shed the water on to the ground and not down into your boots as tighter plus 2s are apt to do ,team them with a pair of gaiters and you should be more or less waterproof from the knees down.
Other advantages of tweed are that is not overly cold when wet unlike cotton which becomes very cold and uncomfortable when wet, also choose the pattern wisely and its as good as any cammo.
Highland stalkers have stuck with it for the best part of 150 years so it must have something going for it.?
Boots many favour high leg boots nothing wrong with them if that's your choice,personally I prefer a 4seasons ankle boot teamed with a pair of gaiters , a good 4 seasons boot is waterproof so no need for gortex, a good pair of ankle boots and gaiters are quite capable of wading a Highland burn without any water entering the boots.
Jackets choice is yours but a base layer that will wick away sweat is important, during stag season I would often wear a lightweight cammo jacket over a fleece in winter I like a smock again be careful some will cause you to sweat to much but you want something that's windproof in winter.
Sticks shooting sticks are a waste of time on the hill 99.9% of shots will be prone so bipod or whatever method you feel comfortable shooting prone, while shooting sticks are not much use on the hill a good stout walking stick is not only is it a third leg but is very useful if you need to drag, short rope tied centre of stick and use both hands behind your back to drag keeping the rope short means you lift the animals head of the ground making it much easier to drag ,using a stick is easier on the hands than just a rope, avoid any type of harness as they can be extremely dangerous on the hill if a beast takes of on a slope you will end up being dragged with it which could be disastrous.
Rifles any deer legal caliber is fine for Highland stalking , while some might be considered a bit mentioned southern or woodland stags this is not the case with our smaller Highland beasts .
Scopes again the choice is yours but there is no need for fancy tactical scopes for Highland stalking either a fixed scope or a variable whatever you choose just remember your shots are likely to be sub 200 yards ,most shots are somewhere between 100 and 150 yards with 200 being pretty much the maximum would certainly not let a client shoot at more than 200.
Zero someone mentioned holdover ,many Highland stalkers tend to use the inch high at a hundred yards method which allows them to shoot from zero to 200 yards without holdover.
Range finders again if you feel more comfortable with one that's fine, but judging 200 yards is not too difficult a little bit of practice and a range finder should not be necessary for hill stalking.
Moderators most people have one these days they are great for protecting your hearing as for actual stalking on the hill some claim they allow more chance of multiple shots at hinds on the hill, can't honestly say I have found them to make much difference there are still quite a few pro stalkers shooting unmoderated rifles.
Food and water I have already stated my views on carrying water on the hill so will say no more on that, food you require something easy to carry something you can stick in your pocket, a couple of Mars bars or snickers will provide energy ( not so good if you are diabetic ) though you can now get sugar free energy bars which are a good alternative, as is a banana but not a pretty sight when its been squashed in your pocket as is apt to happen lol
Clothing as others have said tweed is hard to better, while not waterproof it is water resistant ,plus 4s rather than plus 2s
or somewhere in between if you don't like them to long, a couple of reasons for this if you have to crawl when you stand up the wet area should no longer be on your knee but hanging somewhat below it a proper pair of plus 4s should be baggy enough to shed the water on to the ground and not down into your boots as tighter plus 2s are apt to do ,team them with a pair of gaiters and you should be more or less waterproof from the knees down.
Other advantages of tweed are that is not overly cold when wet unlike cotton which becomes very cold and uncomfortable when wet, also choose the pattern wisely and its as good as any cammo.
Highland stalkers have stuck with it for the best part of 150 years so it must have something going for it.?
Boots many favour high leg boots nothing wrong with them if that's your choice,personally I prefer a 4seasons ankle boot teamed with a pair of gaiters , a good 4 seasons boot is waterproof so no need for gortex, a good pair of ankle boots and gaiters are quite capable of wading a Highland burn without any water entering the boots.
Jackets choice is yours but a base layer that will wick away sweat is important, during stag season I would often wear a lightweight cammo jacket over a fleece in winter I like a smock again be careful some will cause you to sweat to much but you want something that's windproof in winter.
Sticks shooting sticks are a waste of time on the hill 99.9% of shots will be prone so bipod or whatever method you feel comfortable shooting prone, while shooting sticks are not much use on the hill a good stout walking stick is not only is it a third leg but is very useful if you need to drag, short rope tied centre of stick and use both hands behind your back to drag keeping the rope short means you lift the animals head of the ground making it much easier to drag ,using a stick is easier on the hands than just a rope, avoid any type of harness as they can be extremely dangerous on the hill if a beast takes of on a slope you will end up being dragged with it which could be disastrous.
Rifles any deer legal caliber is fine for Highland stalking , while some might be considered a bit mentioned southern or woodland stags this is not the case with our smaller Highland beasts .
Scopes again the choice is yours but there is no need for fancy tactical scopes for Highland stalking either a fixed scope or a variable whatever you choose just remember your shots are likely to be sub 200 yards ,most shots are somewhere between 100 and 150 yards with 200 being pretty much the maximum would certainly not let a client shoot at more than 200.
Zero someone mentioned holdover ,many Highland stalkers tend to use the inch high at a hundred yards method which allows them to shoot from zero to 200 yards without holdover.
Range finders again if you feel more comfortable with one that's fine, but judging 200 yards is not too difficult a little bit of practice and a range finder should not be necessary for hill stalking.
Moderators most people have one these days they are great for protecting your hearing as for actual stalking on the hill some claim they allow more chance of multiple shots at hinds on the hill, can't honestly say I have found them to make much difference there are still quite a few pro stalkers shooting unmoderated rifles.
Food and water I have already stated my views on carrying water on the hill so will say no more on that, food you require something easy to carry something you can stick in your pocket, a couple of Mars bars or snickers will provide energy ( not so good if you are diabetic ) though you can now get sugar free energy bars which are a good alternative, as is a banana but not a pretty sight when its been squashed in your pocket as is apt to happen lol
Depends if you are type 1 or 2 any sugar sends my blood sugar levels sky high.
my levels are never low always high.
Coddy
Well-Known Member
Vorn Lynx.
Big enough to hold essentials, and not to big to hold other stuff you don't really need.
I remove my rifle sling when using it, as it sometimes catches on the securing clips when getting the rifle its compartment.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Clothing as others have said tweed is hard to better, while not waterproof it is water resistant:
Indeed. f it is too wet to shoot wearing good tweed then it is, simply put, usually too wet to shoot in any sort of clothing.
Plus 4s rather than plus 2s.....the wet area should no longer be on your knee but hanging somewhat below it a proper pair of plus 4s should be baggy enough to shed the water on to the ground and not down into your boots as tighter plus 2s are apt to do:
Absolutely. Worst of all are these knickerbocker type breeches or breeks that look as if they are sprayed on. No good at all. That hang away from the knee is there for a purpose. And with wellies at a standing peg it hangs well over the top of the wellies too.
Other advantages of tweed are that is not overly cold when wet unlike cotton which becomes very cold and uncomfortable when wet. Highland stalkers have stuck with it for the best part of 150 years:
Again wool will keep you warm when wet. It's why sheep don't die of cold. Artificial fibres and also cotton once soaked have little effect at stopping your loss of body heat.
A good stout walking stick is not only is it a third leg but is very useful:
It also acts as a monopod steady if you are kneeling using binoculars over about 7x and, of course, if you are borrowing your stalker's telescope and don't want to lie down.
Zero someone mentioned holdover ,many Highland stalkers tend to use the inch high at a hundred yards:
Never zeroed but any other way. I like the bottom of my group at one hundred yards to sit on the very top of my foresight or post reticule. But with a crosshair type I do zero so that the centre of the group falls right under the + of the crosshair.
Sugar free energy bars which are a good alternative, as is a banana but not a pretty sight when its been squashed in your pocket:
Bananas. A tip. If you carry two in an old cricketer's box type jockstrap either side of your own manhood they seem not to crush so easily. An added bonus is that your stalker usually also won't ask if he can share one with you. Just remember to take them out before shooting from prone.
Scopes again the choice is yours but there is no need for fancy tactical scopes for Highland stalking:
A secondhand highest quality fixed 4x, or maybe better 6x, old school by any top rank maker...so that's Zeiss or Swarovski or below that S & B or Kahles or Nickel (or a good quality same maker's 3-9x) is better than any mediocre fancy third or fourth rank maker's tactical 'scope or x to the umpteenth variable. Gregor at Tain is always worth a call for such things.
Indeed. f it is too wet to shoot wearing good tweed then it is, simply put, usually too wet to shoot in any sort of clothing.
Plus 4s rather than plus 2s.....the wet area should no longer be on your knee but hanging somewhat below it a proper pair of plus 4s should be baggy enough to shed the water on to the ground and not down into your boots as tighter plus 2s are apt to do:
Absolutely. Worst of all are these knickerbocker type breeches or breeks that look as if they are sprayed on. No good at all. That hang away from the knee is there for a purpose. And with wellies at a standing peg it hangs well over the top of the wellies too.
Other advantages of tweed are that is not overly cold when wet unlike cotton which becomes very cold and uncomfortable when wet. Highland stalkers have stuck with it for the best part of 150 years:
Again wool will keep you warm when wet. It's why sheep don't die of cold. Artificial fibres and also cotton once soaked have little effect at stopping your loss of body heat.
A good stout walking stick is not only is it a third leg but is very useful:
It also acts as a monopod steady if you are kneeling using binoculars over about 7x and, of course, if you are borrowing your stalker's telescope and don't want to lie down.
Zero someone mentioned holdover ,many Highland stalkers tend to use the inch high at a hundred yards:
Never zeroed but any other way. I like the bottom of my group at one hundred yards to sit on the very top of my foresight or post reticule. But with a crosshair type I do zero so that the centre of the group falls right under the + of the crosshair.
Sugar free energy bars which are a good alternative, as is a banana but not a pretty sight when its been squashed in your pocket:
Bananas. A tip. If you carry two in an old cricketer's box type jockstrap either side of your own manhood they seem not to crush so easily. An added bonus is that your stalker usually also won't ask if he can share one with you. Just remember to take them out before shooting from prone.
Scopes again the choice is yours but there is no need for fancy tactical scopes for Highland stalking:
A secondhand highest quality fixed 4x, or maybe better 6x, old school by any top rank maker...so that's Zeiss or Swarovski or below that S & B or Kahles or Nickel (or a good quality same maker's 3-9x) is better than any mediocre fancy third or fourth rank maker's tactical 'scope or x to the umpteenth variable. Gregor at Tain is always worth a call for such things.
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deeangeo
Well-Known Member
Definitely plus four tweeds are good when going for stags and good goretex lined cammo or tweeds when shooting hinds.
On hinds in Nov. Dec. in the Highlands cold & wet normal, good dry days if you hit lucky, snow is magnificently challenging.
I use a white 'throwaway' paper type industrial overall for snow cammo.
250/300yd shots are often the best opportunity you get in snowy weather on open hill.
For the Highlands I zero 1 1/2" high @ 100 = approx 180-190yd zero with my rifle & ammunition.
Good enough for 6" holdover for a 300yd shot on hinds.
I Always use a hazel stick, useful for so many reasons.
Hinds are a brilliant challenge, I think more so than stags, but then I'm not really a trophy hunter.
Having said that, stags are just brilliant in the rut. Hearing them roar and listening to the clash of antlers when they fight. Often you don't see the fights, but hear them in the trees.
Scopes, well, for thirty five years I've used a fixed power 8x56 Swaro, S&B & Zeiss.
No doubt the more modern Swaro & S&B scopes are excellent, but personally, I don't think you shoot more deer with them.
I've had my Swaro bins since 1995, still excellent and though expensive (As were my scopes) well worth the outlay as many will know.
Swaro service is excellent, as is Schmidt und Bender. Zeiss service is the pits.
On hinds in Nov. Dec. in the Highlands cold & wet normal, good dry days if you hit lucky, snow is magnificently challenging.
I use a white 'throwaway' paper type industrial overall for snow cammo.
250/300yd shots are often the best opportunity you get in snowy weather on open hill.
For the Highlands I zero 1 1/2" high @ 100 = approx 180-190yd zero with my rifle & ammunition.
Good enough for 6" holdover for a 300yd shot on hinds.
I Always use a hazel stick, useful for so many reasons.
Hinds are a brilliant challenge, I think more so than stags, but then I'm not really a trophy hunter.
Having said that, stags are just brilliant in the rut. Hearing them roar and listening to the clash of antlers when they fight. Often you don't see the fights, but hear them in the trees.
Scopes, well, for thirty five years I've used a fixed power 8x56 Swaro, S&B & Zeiss.
No doubt the more modern Swaro & S&B scopes are excellent, but personally, I don't think you shoot more deer with them.
I've had my Swaro bins since 1995, still excellent and though expensive (As were my scopes) well worth the outlay as many will know.
Swaro service is excellent, as is Schmidt und Bender. Zeiss service is the pits.
Some fantastic tips and knowledge being shared on this thread. As a novice stalker I have don't have much to add however as a climber / mountaineer I would echo the 3/4 season mountain boots and gaiters advice, I would recommend trying plenty of pairs on though and be mindful that a B2 rated crampon boot will have a solid shank in the sole to help when front pointing in crampons, this can make them bloody stiff and awkward if you're not used to them. They are also a lot 'heavier' on the foot!
I certainly have some true hill stalking on my agenda, just need to fathom out where / who with lol
I certainly have some true hill stalking on my agenda, just need to fathom out where / who with lol
S&L7x57
Well-Known Member
A word in favor of Fortis clothing (was Country Covers). Definitely a Special Forces/Military flavor to the design but none the worse for that. And no licencing fees paid to certain camo pattern owners! Special features or non-standard dimensions added in for minimal cost. Repairs done at cost, all the benefits of a family run, British company.
I have used their jacket and trousers for a couple of years and have found them waterproof and supremely comfortable. Only reservations I have is with the trousers that are quite heavy with their multiple layers (lining, WP membrane, protective layer, outer camo) and they are really clingy in warm weather without a thin base layer. Also the velcro waist fastenings make a shirt tucked in a wardrobe essential!
And no, I am not on a back-hander!
I have used their jacket and trousers for a couple of years and have found them waterproof and supremely comfortable. Only reservations I have is with the trousers that are quite heavy with their multiple layers (lining, WP membrane, protective layer, outer camo) and they are really clingy in warm weather without a thin base layer. Also the velcro waist fastenings make a shirt tucked in a wardrobe essential!
And no, I am not on a back-hander!
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Ooops
Well-Known Member
+1 here, here
McKenzie
Well-Known Member
You can get around this by keeping the sling outside the 'rifle pocket' if you think you might need it.
The pack also works well for photography if you're creative with making a protected area for cameras & lenses & a tripod can be carried by sticking one leg into the rifle pocket.
I don't think the pack is the solution to everything (I'd have to take it off to shoot prone) but is by far the most comfortable loaded pack I've ever walked with.
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"Sticks
Started out with sticks but stopped using them (more to carry
)when I realised it would be 99.9% lie down and shoot""
One of the best things I bought from Hamish (Yes really) when I used to stalk Cluny was a nipple high stick with ewe horn handle (think shepherds crook) It was absolutely invaluable when walking across steep slopes Stick on the down side and rifle carried on shoulder on upside so if do fall it goes minimum distance to ground Don't forget tape over muzzle too when you go back for hinds in snow. Which reminds me one year with no snow suit we simply went to charity shop and bought table cloths and cut hole in middle Frank Holmes looked a joy in his lacy number
S
Started out with sticks but stopped using them (more to carry
One of the best things I bought from Hamish (Yes really) when I used to stalk Cluny was a nipple high stick with ewe horn handle (think shepherds crook) It was absolutely invaluable when walking across steep slopes Stick on the down side and rifle carried on shoulder on upside so if do fall it goes minimum distance to ground Don't forget tape over muzzle too when you go back for hinds in snow. Which reminds me one year with no snow suit we simply went to charity shop and bought table cloths and cut hole in middle Frank Holmes looked a joy in his lacy number
S
sikamalc
Administrator
All you need is a good windproof, lightweight and waterproof, trousers, coat, hat (not wide brimmed) people turn up with huge bush hats sometimes. Very good high walking boots, well worn in. Good gaiters to go over them. A pair of gloves. Rifle, ammo, good binos, drag rope or harness, knife. A mars bar, chocolate or sweets, bottle of water. A stick to walk with is good, bit you don't need shooting sticks. A bi pod on the rifle is fine, just make sure it dosnt interfere with the muzzle harmonics.
The less you carry the better it is. Don't forget if you get a stag down you may well have to drag it a way to the bike or argo, so don't clutter yourself with useless equipment.
The less you carry the better it is. Don't forget if you get a stag down you may well have to drag it a way to the bike or argo, so don't clutter yourself with useless equipment.
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