Shoot more Deer !

[Tim.243]

I think you underestimate how much control the government has over the way people manage their land, and what they can or cannot do on that land.
With regard to pest control, landowners are already compelled to control rabbits, rats and certain weeds, for example. Whether or not this is properly enforced is another matter, but if it is then landowner has no choice in the matter.
There is already mention of a "deer management element" in the latest round of agri-environment support schemes, so that's just one step short of compulsory reduction in numbers.
With individual fallow herds numbering in the thousands in some areas, it's going to happen.

Some old farm folk will remember the War Agg Dept who came in and told farmers what was going to happen!
All the scrub land was ripped up and they had to get it producing food,
That will only be in a different name these day but if needed just as much clout

 

[sikamalc]

Those fallow have been shot hard all winter but as with all fallow herds, getting them back in hand will take a few seasons of hard work.
The numbers in the Midlands are much higher.

Really!!!
About a year ago I drove past there on my way up to my areas in Bedfordshire.
I pass this way a great deal.
The field adjoining the M25 and backing onto theA12, was absolutely covered in Fallow. An estimated guess would he in excess of 400 to 500. I have never seen so many on that one field.
Thats not counting what I saw onbthd opposite side where they are extending the junction.
So whoever is shooting or stalking on there needs to up their game plan.

 

[@theroedeerguy]

Be careful what you all wish for. Up here in Scotland there are areas where there are now very few deer. On my own permissions in Fife I didn’t see a single buck last year and took two does. And we normally several a year of both bucks and does.

Over in Argyl where I also regularly stalk we saw and took the only two stags on the ground. That place used to support 10 stags a year.

Neighbouring estates had to turn away several tens of thousands of pounds from overseas stalkers because there were no deer for them to stalk.

And the local contractors are now loosing money as they are getting very few deer and the larder fees are hardly covering the diesel costs.

That’s the polar opposite from the part of Fife I’m in, there’s no shortage of Roe on farmland or in forestry and any areas that are culled hard quickly fill up with newcomers.

 

[VSS]

Really!!!
About a year ago I drove past there on my way up to my areas in Bedfordshire.
I pass this way a great deal.
The field adjoining the M25 and backing onto theA12, was absolutely covered in Fallow. An estimated guess would he in excess of 400 to 500. I have never seen so many on that one field.
Thats not counting what I saw onbthd opposite side where they are extending the junction.
So whoever is shooting or stalking on there needs to up their game plan.

Yes, really.
The numbers are quite incredible, with groups well in excess of what you're describing.

 

[Twodogs]

But if the fallow herds in the Midlands keep on growing as they are then landowners will most likely be instructed to cull them - or lose their agricultural support payments. Regardless of whether the like seeing deer on their land or not. So the decision will be out of the stalker's hands.

If possible please can you point me in the right direction so I can assist with reducing the growing Fallow population in the Midlands.

I am currently on the lookout for permissions or the opportunity to assist, unpaid skivvying as an experience gaining exercise? In the midlands area. Many thanks.

A big obstacle to deer control near me is that so much of the land is owned by one or other of the big builders who do not allow shooting on their ground, or not me anyway. Longer term this will resolve as when they build on it the deer will be forced off, only to become someone else’s problem elsewhere.

 

[Heym SR20]

That’s the polar opposite from the part of Fife I’m in, there’s no shortage of Roe on farmland or in forestry and any areas that are culled hard quickly fill up with newcomers.

Which is why deer should be managed on a local basis rather than on a national level dictated by Government.

And if culled hard areas do immediately fill up with incomers, which then reduces numbers on all neighbouring properties. And the newcomers can reek havoc marking new terratories etc. Its better to leave the dominant deer in place to deter neighbouring deer.

Pretty much the same applies to foxes.

The areas I stalk over are about 2 miles from FLS land where there have been very hard culls.

The land I have is a mix of farmland and woodland - both old and young. There is no pressure from the deer in terms of browse or crop damage. Indeed both landowners like having the deer about both for having them about and for the freezer and a bit of stalking.

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

Which is why deer should be managed on a local basis rather than on a national level dictated by Government.

And if culled hard areas do immediately fill up with incomers, which then reduces numbers on all neighbouring properties. And the newcomers can reek havoc marking new terratories etc. Its better to leave the dominant deer in place to deter neighbouring deer.

Pretty much the same applies to foxes.

The areas I stalk over are about 2 miles from FLS land where there have been very hard culls.

The land I have is a mix of farmland and woodland - both old and young. There is no pressure from the deer in terms of browse or crop damage. Indeed both landowners like having the deer about both for having them about and for the freezer and a bit of stalking.

What you are forgetting is, is what the land owner wants.

If you are stalking deer on a farm and the land owner wants them shot on sight, what do you think is going to happen when you don’t carry out his wishes?

You’ll be looking for more ground and they’ll be a new stalker on that farm. This is what you’re all forgetting, the landowners are sick to the back teeth of the deer.

It’s got nothing to do with what you think, or what I think, or what the government thinks it is down to the landowners requirements, and that is the way I work, Farmer wants them shot, shot they will be within the realms of the law

 

[Heym SR20]

What you are forgetting is, is what the land owner wants.

If you are stalking deer on a farm and the land owner wants them shot on sight, what do you think is going to happen when you don’t carry out his wishes?

You’ll be looking for more ground and they’ll be a new stalker on that farm. This is what you’re all forgetting, the landowners are sick to the back teeth of the deer.

It’s got nothing to do with what you think, or what I think, or what the government thinks it is down to the landowners requirements, and that is the way I work, Farmer wants them shot, shot they will be within the realms of the law

I work closely with my landowners and they like a balance of deer of deer on their land. Those who advocate no deer and want all shot are really on a hiding to nothing, as any an empty space soon fills up.

I suspect the attitude of these landowners - often corporate or government owned will result in deer effectively becoming extinct in many areas of the UK.

 

[baguio]

So whoever is shooting or stalking on there needs to up their game plan.

I will let the team know that you don’t think that the hundreds they have shot this winter is enough and they’re all crap! Obviously one season should have been plenty if they were any good!

 

[Jagdmatch]

I have no idea why Lee was banned however that is not really pertinent to this conversation. I respect and understand Malcs views regarding deer and vermin but in the South of England the simple fact is there are too many fallow. For me the issue is threat to life. More deer means more road accidents and eventually somebody will be killed as a result. I do not now leave deer for another day, or worry about unborn deer. If it safe I kill it. The meat is sold or given away. I only eat venison. Deer stalking is no longer casual entertainment in the country for people seeking some Victorian experience. ( ( 2 pints of IPA and 64 years old)

 

[Ratel]

Living in an area of high Fallow density, South Lincs we have large herds running about, but on our estate we have little woodland. I used to stalk an estate on a "professional" basis forty years ago which has had the Game fair for a couple of years. The Fallow there were mainly woodland animals and although it was hard graft I had no trouble getting clients their deer or achieving my cull. However now it s extremely hard on just arable land. A classic example this afternoon and the last three times out. A herd of over 100 animals on a rather flat field which has footpaths on three sides, try to move them into a safe ambush and they decide they like next door better. Another group of 60+ thirty yards over the boundary which moved across us before first light from another neighbours ground. The only ones possible on us was a small bunch of bucks and a high awkward wind put paid to that stalk.
Some folk seem to think it's so easy but I would Iike to see anybody who could cull more than we do under these circumstances. If only our neighbours put in the time we do it would be a great help. The thought of someone going in and reducing Fallow numbers by 80 per cent has got to be a joke.

 

[David Barker]

It is important to understand that deer managers have different objectives. I have never seen more than 20 fallow at any one time and groups of reds are way out of my area. So i only have roe on 90% of my ground and they are in a healthy state. I have managed most of these areas for over 40 years and i shoot similar numbers each years with out an increase. I have picked up many new areas of land over the years and make sure i put a trusted friend on the ground and monitor any new chaps performance. I manage to my capability's and i will not have anyone who does not know me of my ground put me on a Scottish map as part of the deer problem.

 

[@theroedeerguy]

Which is why deer should be managed on a local basis rather than on a national level dictated by Government.

And if culled hard areas do immediately fill up with incomers, which then reduces numbers on all neighbouring properties. And the newcomers can reek havoc marking new terratories etc. Its better to leave the dominant deer in place to deter neighbouring deer.

Pretty much the same applies to foxes.

The areas I stalk over are about 2 miles from FLS land where there have been very hard culls.

The land I have is a mix of farmland and woodland - both old and young. There is no pressure from the deer in terms of browse or crop damage. Indeed both landowners like having the deer about both for having them about and for the freezer and a bit of stalking.

When I used to do habitat impact surveys on FC ground, I never yet saw a tangible reduction in overall damage where there was perceived to be a “dominant” buck.

It’s a nice theory which maybe sometimes rings true but I prefer to limit and reduce habitat impact by lowering the overall population density whenever the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Jagdmatch]

with the greatest respect nobody can’manage’ fallow at the density they are at now!

 

[Dan Newcombe]

No it's not rocket science but if you have a good clairvoyant I would be happy to rent her off you.
Yes they do live in woodland on surrounding ground and only come on and off us. If you doubt what a lot of us say about this come and have a look and sit a spell, bring a rifle and show us how to figure things out.

They can’t get anywhere without leaving trods. Find a trod and watch it, use trail cams and then make sure you are there when you need to be. You won’t get them every time but when you get an opportunity don’t stop pulling the trigger until you run out of rounds or range and not when you can’t be arsed to drag them out.

And - do it at night as well, that makes a massive difference

 

[John Gryphon]

Perhaps one partial solution is for people who let out stalking to allow people to take the carcase home (or even insisting on it) rather than charging for the walk, the shot and then the carcase at "game dealer's rates"! If the OP is to believed game dealer's rates are zero so why the charge?

Yes, I still cant fathom why anyone wants to pay for 'shoot a deer' and the carcase stays with the estate or is offered to the shooter at a cost. The 'shoot a deer' keep the meat is the only way imo.

Take a video of those you can’t get a buyer for going into a municipal incinerator or an on-site pit and then send it to the BBC, along with an explanatory note that makes clear the reason for such a criminal waste of protein.

That video then gives the anti`s ammo as in 'they shouldn't be killed then ' blah blah blah. Oh yes anti`s have the answer on 'there are other ways' you know the drill.

It’s time we started sharing opportunities with each other and get some young blood into the sport.

Too many too interested in thumb work on their phone.

Would it not be possible for all those selling stalking to allow the stalker to take what they have shot without any further charge ?

See my first reply.

With so many deer being killed or dumped I ask is there a knackery that would gladly take them?

 

[User00047]

Too many too interested in thumb work on their phone.

This from the guy with 22,000+ posts ?

Plenty younguns in my area are glad to get out in the field, but it’s not easy for them to get started in this game.
It’s tough enough for them to get a start in work and life around here. Good opportunities are few and far between.

 

[John Gryphon]

This from the guy with 22,000+ posts ?

Really? Well I`ll be, thank you for following me and keeping your eyes on my posts.

Btw, I use a computer.

 

[User00047]

Really? Well I`ll be, thank you for following me and keeping your eyes on my posts.

Btw, I use a computer.

These days , a phone is a computer

 

[Ratel]

They can’t get anywhere without leaving trods. Find a trod and watch it, use trail cams and then make sure you are there when you need to be. You won’t get them every time but when you get an opportunity don’t stop pulling the trigger until you run out of rounds or range and not when you can’t be arsed to drag them out.

And - do it at night as well, that makes a massive difference

Do you assume that I have never done these things. You'll never teach this grandmother to suck eggs my friend.