What choking?
Steel shot??
- Thread starter Smellydog
- Start date
I would check they are rated for TSS or use a mylar wrap also. As Jocker as far as I know have never used them with TSS only steel.
S-b-S or O/U?
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
Yes and if you go pure tungsten, I'm somewhat sceptical. Usual approach is to use double steel wads, and even then it's just some specific wads that offer enough protection for bore. And even then many add a wrap between cups.
Luckily pure tungsten is not going to be too popular in high volume shooting, retail price for single cartridge is like 10+ Euro here.
Has anyone here had experience of putting standard-steel cartridges through a Browning double-auto shotgun?.I would think the steel receiver version would be OK with a more open choke, especially with steel trap loads but Browning says they are not compatible with steel ammunition.....
Tralle
Well-Known Member
I have found next to no benefit to using the hypersteel loads, they hurt the shoulder, gun, and ears.There have been several types of bio wads here, but so far it seems to be a problem getting them right for fast speed cartriges.
In Oktober there was another big manufactures recall of bio-wad shotgun shells.
I have tried Mirage bio-wad (420 M/S), and they are OK for land birds, havent had much luck on geese and ducks.
Problem with Eley VIP steel 32g bio wad; they are "only" marked as 395 M/S, and that´s to slow for legal hunting here (minimum 400 M/S).
Eley VIP Steel hyperspeed, are much more popular here they go with 460 M/S, but dont come with biowad.
So far it dosent seem like anyone have been able to make a acceptable biowad, for the fast steel shot cartriges.
If they do make acceptable biowads I will gladly use them.
Every walk on the Jutland east coast beach we collect a bag full of old plastic wads.
For shooting geese and ducks I use the most powerfull we can get, 32gram steel 460-480 meters per second, and they do an acceptable job on the water.
Problem is my gun is a 60 year old Suhl S/S is without recoil buffer in the stock or padding, so those cartriges are very hard to shoot from my gun.
I dont have a problem shooting 50 shots from 9,3x62 rifle loaded with 285grain hunting loads when spending 1 hour in the shooting cinema, but it really hurts the shoulder to shoot 15 shots of those powerfull steel cartriges over a day on the water.
The shooting distances have to be kept down when using steel pellets no matter the cartriges.
It is the consensus in my hunting circles as well, we have all circled away from them again.
I believe pattern and distance being more important.
Irrc there is very little gained in distance as the speed drops off really fast with steel.
In a size 5, in theory, you gain something like 2 m going up 30m/s in mv.
I saw no real improvement in shot statistics on eiders (when they were legal where i hunt
) compared to the usual Kent/jaguar/gamebore. Note, all eiders were shot over decoys, it may have been different shooting from the boat.
I have struggled finding a bio-wad loads as well, the Kent fasteel 2.0 patterned absolutely horrible in my gun.
Planning to try the eley ecowad in the 20g this year. Hopefully they will work as a decent load for woodcocks.
You can try with a modern gun and open chokes - less than half, but on a vintage gun you would be taking a risk. Fleur de lise is high pressure - why risk it? Your Hatsan would probably be OK, but personally I would swop them for normal steel. I found steel kills, just not at range, so I moderated my shots. Oddly effective ambushing crows but probably a range thing I.e. shorter - 30 yds. High pheasant or duck? Not so much.
So don’t…
ditto, have only tried 50 steel cartridges, 25 were HP steel and as you say, heavy recoil and very loud report, used them pigeon decoying and could not see any benefit in using them over standard steel for that purpose. Even the standard steel were louder than the lead cartridges.
I continue to use lead all the time legally allowed.
Noise pollution I fear may become an issue for clay shooting grounds if the future is steel shot and possibly even in some locations vermin control.
Tralle
Well-Known Member
I have never really hunted with lead, as it was banned in Denmark before i started hunting.
So I cant really compare.
In my experience, steel works just fine, but as soon as distance increases you will start wounding birds.
From a purely killing perspective, I think, you are overly concerned with the ban, the birds will die just fine once you adjust.
Your main concern should be your old english guns and plastic wads.
Personally i have shot a Beretta a303 till the mechanics in the bolt broke(took some time though),
Seen another a303 bulge.
Made a bulge and got a loose rib on my valmet 412s 12/76, never fired a 76mm through it.
Seen a few front stocks split, mostly on older baikals though.
All in the sake of chasing velocity in guns not really rated for it, for no apparent gain.
I like think I am wiser now
Today the very best steel shot cartriges can be compared to the worst lead shot cartriges.
When the first steel shot cartriges came back in the early 90ies they where utterly useless, many deer where wounded and shooting deer with shotgun became a problem.
Remember a duckhunt the first year we had to use steel. 80+ steelshotcartriges fired, a lot og loose feathers but only 2 ducks bagged. Normal when using lead shot was around 2-3 shots pr duck in those days.
Many Danish hunters today have never tried lead shot as it was banned here around 30 years ago.
My "older" generation, has the problem we keep forgetting the limitations of using lead shot, the reduced range is the most common mistake we "older" hunters make.
Bismuth and tungsten shot is far better than steel, speacially when used on deer, but so are the price.
When the first steel shot cartriges came back in the early 90ies they where utterly useless, many deer where wounded and shooting deer with shotgun became a problem.
Remember a duckhunt the first year we had to use steel. 80+ steelshotcartriges fired, a lot og loose feathers but only 2 ducks bagged. Normal when using lead shot was around 2-3 shots pr duck in those days.
Many Danish hunters today have never tried lead shot as it was banned here around 30 years ago.
My "older" generation, has the problem we keep forgetting the limitations of using lead shot, the reduced range is the most common mistake we "older" hunters make.
Bismuth and tungsten shot is far better than steel, speacially when used on deer, but so are the price.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
To summarise the only thing going for steel shot is price alone, in all other respects its inferior to lead and the other non lead alternatives?
if you read what I had written i did not criticise the steel shot for not killing the pigeons at decoying distance, what Idid not like was the recoil from the HP type and loud report from both types.I have never really hunted with lead, as it was banned in Denmark before i started hunting.
So I cant really compare.
In my experience, steel works just fine, but as soon as distance increases you will start wounding birds.
From a purely killing perspective, I think, you are overly concerned with the ban, the birds will die just fine once you adjust.
Your main concern should be your old english guns and plastic wads.
Personally i have shot a Beretta a303 till the mechanics in the bolt broke(took some time though),
Seen another a303 bulge.
Made a bulge and got a loose rib on my valmet 412s 12/76, never fired a 76mm through it.
Seen a few front stocks split, mostly on older baikals though.
All in the sake of chasing velocity in guns not really rated for it, for no apparent gain.
I like think I am wiser now
And yes denmark from what i read now has a big problem with plastic wad pollution especially along the foreshore.
Tralle
Well-Known Member
Sorry I meant the brits in general. Not you in particular.
I bought one of these shotguns last year and love it.
Mine is full choke and real meaty on the barrels.
I am not intending at the moment to use steel in this whilst i can use lead.
Its an interesting question and perhaps the official answer is no but when push comes to shove maybe i would provided the shot diameter is small.
Also the option at that point of opening out the choke.
I don't currently one one, but saw a double auto recently in a local shop....cylinder choke, and the barrel wall at the muzzle was reasonably think.I have done some research and Browning says no steel through these guns.But then the same is said about the older FN made Auto-5 Long-recoil guns and I know several people who have had the chokes opened up and use standard velocity steel shells through them without incident, have been doing so for many years.I suppose its not good advice to go against a manufacturers recommendations...but I am struggling to see how say a 12 gauge steel trap load in no.7 shot could damage one of these guns.If steel shot became mandatory at some point in the future then an owner might have to consider this...
Fowler1990
Well-Known Member
Purchased a large quantity of eley lightning steel at the time of the unpoliced lead ban.
Ran out recently and after 5 years they have been fantastic. Really cant fault them, clean kills at some impeccable distances on pretty much everything you can shoot in the UK, providing your using a shot size or 2 less than you usually would.
No 5 became my preferred pigeon partridge and crow cartridge.
Not sure if thats down to fammiliarity or consistency of me using the same thing but there's nothing wrong with steel for killing stuff.
All work fine on ducks and geese once they have landed
🍽🍽🍽
Ran out recently and after 5 years they have been fantastic. Really cant fault them, clean kills at some impeccable distances on pretty much everything you can shoot in the UK, providing your using a shot size or 2 less than you usually would.
No 5 became my preferred pigeon partridge and crow cartridge.
Not sure if thats down to fammiliarity or consistency of me using the same thing but there's nothing wrong with steel for killing stuff.
All work fine on ducks and geese once they have landed
🍽🍽🍽
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
My experience as well. Steel does shoot slightly different to lead. Indeed different brands of lead cartridges will shoot differently and we have all seen or experienced a gun who can’t hit anything blame the cartridges he is using.
When ones gunmaker made you a gun one would specify ones cartridge of choice. The gun was regulated to shoot those cartridges and when one mounted the gun the shot would hit where you look. Your man would always make sure the right cartridges were always in the cartridge bag.
Different loads recoil differently which in turn will affect if the shot goes high, low or to one side compared to where you point the gun.
Different loads will leave the barrel at different velocities therefore time of flight to the target will differ, which will have an effect on how you swing through the bird.
Fortunately the brain is very good at learning these sorts of things - its called muscle memory - and a little trial and error will soon get things back in sync. Sometimes it may not and a bigger change is required, but mostly with a change in cartridges a box or three will sort things out.
Those who spit the dummy out after trying just a few - well hardly surprising they don’t work. By a slab of new cartridges, stick them in the cartridge bag and think no more of it. Just go and shoot.
When ones gunmaker made you a gun one would specify ones cartridge of choice. The gun was regulated to shoot those cartridges and when one mounted the gun the shot would hit where you look. Your man would always make sure the right cartridges were always in the cartridge bag.
Different loads recoil differently which in turn will affect if the shot goes high, low or to one side compared to where you point the gun.
Different loads will leave the barrel at different velocities therefore time of flight to the target will differ, which will have an effect on how you swing through the bird.
Fortunately the brain is very good at learning these sorts of things - its called muscle memory - and a little trial and error will soon get things back in sync. Sometimes it may not and a bigger change is required, but mostly with a change in cartridges a box or three will sort things out.
Those who spit the dummy out after trying just a few - well hardly surprising they don’t work. By a slab of new cartridges, stick them in the cartridge bag and think no more of it. Just go and shoot.
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