As much as responses can be a bit sharp around the edges at times I generally respect dodgyknees input on longer range shots. In his part of the world that's what they do and you can't beat hands on experience. I've never had a Barnes bullet fail me, but I've never shot a deer at 400m either!
Best Calibre for Deer with Copper Bullets
He kindly sent some very helpful PMs. Bags of experience and very willing to share.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
I wasn’t disagreeing with @dodgyknees sorry if that came out wrong.
The only meaningful expansion test is into animals. Which with copper is difficult because most of the time the bullet will pass through. An age old conundrum. What media do you plan to use?
Utectok
Well-Known Member
I don’t really want to spend a lot of money on it as I’m sure it will confirm your experience…. But nothing like doing it yourself to learn… I’ve ordered some square water containers 4 of them and I guess water or ballistic gel if I can make some from gelatine? Might be better?
What you need are media of different (relevant) consistency. Expansion tests are fun, but how do we mimic the difference between hitting a deer square in the shoulder, versus a pass through behind the shoulder? Hide, shoulder muscle, scapula bone and ribs, all twice over in and out, plus the bulky front lungs in the middle, is a totally different proposition to hide and ribs only, plus thinner less bulky rear lungs. And then you’ve got all the permutations of angle to think of!
Not sure it’s worth spending any money on really.
Not sure it’s worth spending any money on really.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
I get that there will always be reasons why it’s not perfect, and but I think it will be interesting and that’s good enough for me I like mucking around with rifles
The ballistic soap or water bottle tests obviously can’t mimic the difference between the resistance encountered by an on or off target POI on an animal.
But they should enable you to make a comparison of the effect velocity/ range has between different bullets? Even if only just between the expansion diameter of different brands of mono metal or comparison of the velocity where two makes or weights of similarly designed bullets no longer fragment but retain their petals.
The different way that energy is transferrred to the animal between lead or lead free and frangible, partition, fragmenting and expanded petal designs….not so much.
Alan
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harsco01
Well-Known Member
@longrangestalker loves his 30 06 and would provide some feedback based on experience of the calibre.
longrangestalker
Well-Known Member
I most definitely do well the 30-06 has done every thing that a 243,6.5 and 308 has done for me and if you put any of these in the right place they kill but the 30-06 really seemed to work well with the lead free I’m shooting 168gr TTSX and have shot every thing with them from 20yards right out to 300yards with not trouble at all !!!
Also I do not believe in the go lighter and drive it fast as I’ve experienced no better kills with this just more barrel wear and less ft-lb of energy
I have added some photos of a fallow that was shot at 250yards with 168gr ttsx the picture show the entry , central mess , exit the deer were spooked and it only ran 10/20 yards
Do your own testing and don’t listen to ever thing you read that’s what I done and I’ve been amazed I will never shoot lead again in my 30-06
Oh and the 80gr ttsx in 243 will drop some of the biggest lowland reds no drama as well !!
Attachments
I had newsletter from CDSG that led me to looking at 'sub-sonic' bullets in all sorts of calibres. How do these bullets perform at super sonic velocities?
www.cdsgltd.co.uk
LeHigh Defense Maximum Expansion 308 CAL 194Grn Subsonic Bullet 50 Pack 01308194LP - Reloading UK
Maximum Expansion Technology is used to produce projectiles that create the largest wound channels of any bullet you can buy.
www.cdsgltd.co.uk
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Utectok
Well-Known Member
Do you know your MV
all the gel tests in the world are no substitute for large data sets in the field.
Far to many density and angular variables in the real world.
When you have shot 500-1000 deer with a bullet or have the data with distances shot and distances run then you can draw conclusions.
In those volumes many of the bullets available to the UK have shown significantly higher anomaly rates (run distances, non linear pass through, penciling etc)
Many combinations of target species and calibre/weight haven't though
Far to many density and angular variables in the real world.
When you have shot 500-1000 deer with a bullet or have the data with distances shot and distances run then you can draw conclusions.
In those volumes many of the bullets available to the UK have shown significantly higher anomaly rates (run distances, non linear pass through, penciling etc)
Many combinations of target species and calibre/weight haven't though
Utectok
Well-Known Member
This is all true, I know that, but thank you anyway. I though posting that I was testing bullets would lead to lots of people pointing out it was a waste of time ect ect. Like I say, I like mucking about with rifles, but I’ll keep that to myself in future.
Straight shooting.
longrangestalker
Well-Known Member
Yes 2840fps
longrangestalker
Well-Known Member
Well I can only speak from experience on mine and my friends behalf we shoot 250/350 deer a year with 223, 6mm and 30cal and we have not seen any difference over the last 3 years with using barnes TTSX at all and I’m talking about some very big reds !!
Sprocker101
Well-Known Member
Anyone know anywhere with TTSX’s available at the moment? I have plenty in 7mm but want to try some for 6.5mm but can’t find any in the UK. I guessing I’m not the only one at the moment tho….
Call Game and Country, Selkirk.
Think they still had some when I was passing through.
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