Beginner Advice/How to start/Getting an FAC

[TheDeerWalker]

Hi All,

I'm trying to bust my way onto the scene of Stalking, I won't bore you with my life story as I did have to do an introduction piece. In summary, I live in Central Belt Scotland just below Falkirk (for now, hoping to move into the Highland in 5/10 years job dependant) and am starting the journey to get my FAC. I love the idea of Stalking, have done vermin control and bunnies to eat, but there is something about Stalking that is the real deal. We have a lot of Roe deer with occasional Red deer on the farmland and woodland surrounding us. I've got close with the farmer, help him out when possible, anyway got round to asking for shooting rights to his land to go with the FAC application. There were three issues:

1. One he doesn't like guns or shooting that much, he does have sheep and last year lost a fair amount to the foxes, so I approached it with I would mainly focus on vermin control with the occasional deer stalk - which would have been fine as i'd only shoot for me own consumption so wouldn't be eating that much deer! But he still wasn't keen as being the land for the FAC application, and said he'd consider it if I had the license, gun and insurance etc before - guessing it's just totally covering his back which is fair

2. All the land that isn't this farmers is managed by Land and Forest Scotland, there are a glut of deer on that land, it's impossible to go for a walk with scaring a bunch of them. I don't know the likelihood of being allow rights on that land, or even who you'd ask as they maange the land and don't own it

3. There don't appear to be any rifle clubs around to get my foot in the door that way. The nearest and only one I have found is the wrong side of the Pentlands and will be over 1.5 hours drive, which I couldn't commit to joining with other commitments

So, the reason to start this open debate is, how did people here go about finding the land and getting their FACs? What do people do if like me, you can't seem to get started on the journey? Are shooting syndicates the answer, if so how do they work and do you find out about them.

Good to hear your journeys into the sport, and how you overcame the obsticles.

When I say I want to get into this properly, I really mean it, my ambition is when we make our move further north either in the next 10 years, or at max 15 years when I might retire. I want to be confident in my abilities, have had experience stalking, gralloching, butchering and eating. So for this I'll do the DSC1 and large game handling courses, but it's the getting over the threshold that is holding me back.

Cheers

 

[TheDeerWalker]

Are you questioning the fact that there are a lot of deer on the foresty land? or that they don't own the land and only manage it? or that there are in fact deer on the land? or that I live somewhere where there is forest and not farming land?

 

[Dave_45]

Morton clay targets have a range near Livingston with an approved rifle range indoors (100m)

Farmers can be funny , they can be antis to the max at times ,other times they want money and suddenly they aren't antis anymore.

Just book your dsc1 and do some paid stalks around the area , the goose guides about Falkirk also do roe deer stalking.

 

[Dave_45]

South Ayrshire stalking have a few syndicate places, but you will need to re think if you only want to travel 1.5 hours , the prime ground has been tied up by guides or locals or whatever for decades and always will be.

It's not all doom and gloom , if you are honest and decent and keep going you'll get something.

 

[Sampo]

Try a few paid stalks nearby which will allow you to get to know others wit the same interests. Once you get to know people, there are times when you might get an invite to help out or when they need an extra pair of hands maybe during a night vermin control session. It takes time but once people find that people they can trust, won't try to steal their leasing rights or cause more problems than what they solve, you might get more opportunities. Also a word in from the more experienced on managing deer/ vermin numbers might be useful in convincing the farmer to trust you to do some management. Take it slow and build up the trust. All the best.

 

[TheDeerWalker]

South Ayrshire stalking have a few syndicate places, but you will need to re think if you only want to travel 1.5 hours , the prime ground has been tied up by guides or locals or whatever for decades and always will be.

It's not all doom and gloom , if you are honest and decent and keep going you'll get something.

That's a good shout thank you, didn't know that Morton Clay also had a club attached. I don't mind the idea of 1.5 hours travelling for actual hunting, it was just the travel for range shooting I could imagine would get repeatative. Cheers

 

[Husky]

When you say you live below Falkirk do you mean South of ?

 

[TheDeerWalker]

When you say you live below Falkirk do you mean South of ?

Yeah south of falkirk

 

[Husky]

As far as I'm aware the forestry around Slamanan/Limerigg is all FLS and the deer control is done by contractors.
Do some paid stalks using the guides rifle and build some experience and the DSC1 will help with your application.
Females are cheaper than males.
You don't need land for your application just good reason such as paid stalks.

 

[T.eddie]

as above, do some paid stalks and keep a confirmation of these i.e. an invoice or email confirmation. That should be all that is needed to justify an FAC and get you in, also doing some paid stalks with a good guide will help you with the actual stalking element as well as what to do once shot etc

 

[TheDeerWalker]

as above, do some paid stalks and keep a confirmation of these i.e. an invoice or email confirmation. That should be all that is needed to justify an FAC and get you in, also doing some paid stalks with a good guide will help you with the actual stalking element as well as what to do once shot etc

That is good, I was going to contact BASC because I spoke to my local police, and they were a bit icy about the idea of getting an FAC for paid shoots - he started chatting about wanting to start people on .22. It didn't sit right so wanted to see if that was what was expected

 

[T.eddie]

That is good, I was going to contact BASC because I spoke to my local police, and they were a bit icy about the idea of getting an FAC for paid shoots - he started chatting about wanting to start people on .22. It didn't sit right so wanted to see if that was what was expected

I got my FAC through just paid stalks (1 paid stalk completed and 1 booked to be precise) im in England so not sure if it would be different but id like to think it wouldn't

 

[TheDeerWalker]

I got my FAC through just paid stalks (1 paid stalk completed and 1 booked to be precise) im in England so not sure if it would be different but id like to think it wouldn't

Thank you, that is a good bit of information. how did you find out about the paid stalks? what where they like?

 

[T.eddie]

Thank you, that is a good bit of information. how did you find out about the paid stalks? what where they like?

I did my first with basc ( as that is who im with) when they still had the hockwold scheme which was in my opinion very good value for money and then I asked for some guide recommendations on here and was pointed to another guy who was really good and I ended up doing my dsc1 with him
I'd recommend asking for any recommendations for guides in your area / areas your able to travel do as saves the potential of going out with someone that is not quite what you may be looking for

 

[Husky]

By local police, do you mean the feo's at Falkirk or the local Bobby ?

 

[Mick9abf]

I’m going to throw a curve ball in here, not wanting to sound like a spoilsport but…. You don’t actually need a FAC - what your looking to do can be achieved by going on guided stalks locally using an estate rifle and purchasing the carcass if you’re successful at game dealer rates.

For the amount your looking to actually shoot just now, if it’s all for personal consumption and eating, it’ll be far cheaper/cost effective in the long run with zero pressure for numbers and you’ll have, or should have, someone taking you who can show you all the best practice stuff etc and talk you through it and you’ll build the ‘experience’ you want as too many folk fudge it and their ‘carcasses’ look like they’ve been done by Freddie Kruger and don’t improve.

If circumstances change in the future and you have time/ground etc you will get a FAC no bother at all.

Sorry but I’m being honest, I feel it’s pointless shelling out wads of cash to have your own rifle just so you can air it once or twice a year and tell your mates all about it - there I’ve said it and I’m sure there will be plenty along soon to tell me I’m wrong (but I bet a few went down this route and now have a rifle but no ground, and less room in a cupboard for stuff they do use more than once or twice a year after they’ve moaned about having ‘their pants pulled down paying for a stalk’ but won’t pay for ground - go figure).

 

[TheDeerWalker]

I’m going to throw a curve ball in here, not wanting to sound like a spoilsport but…. You don’t actually need a FAC - what your looking to do can be achieved by going on guided stalks locally using an estate rifle and purchasing the carcass if you’re successful at game dealer rates.

For the amount your looking to actually shoot just now if it’s all for personal consumption and eating it’ll be far cheaper/cost effective in the long run with zero pressure for numbers and you’ll have, or should have, someone taking you who can show you all the best practice stuff etc and talk you through it and you’ll build the ‘experience’ you want as too many folk fudge it and their ‘carcasses’ look like they’ve been done by Freddie Kruger and don’t improve.

If circumstances change in the future and you have time/ground etc you will get a FAC no bother at all. Sorry but I’m being honest, I feel it’s pointless shelling out wads of cash to have your own rifle just so you can air it once or twice a year and tell your mates all about it - there I’ve said it and I’m sure there will be plenty along soon to tell m I’m wrong.

Interesting view on it, and not one I had taken tbh. On average how much would you be looking at paying for guided stalks? I like the idea of them to teach you the basics in the field, but from the prices i've seen it would be a very expensive out going - not arguing with your logic, just wondering if I've been looking in the wrong place.

 

[Mick9abf]

Interesting view on it, and not one I had taken tbh. On average how much would you be looking at paying for guided stalks? I like the idea of them to teach you the basics in the field, but from the prices i've seen it would be a very expensive out going - not arguing with your logic, just wondering if I've been looking in the wrong place.

I’m a bit out of touch as don’t tend to buy days but it varies, speak to folk and you’ll get an idea but I’d say ballpark for roe you’d be looking at £150-250 (for a representative) buck and £100-150 for does plus whatever the game dealer rate is locally for the carcass so literally anything from £20-35 average depending on weight.

Obviously different places charge differently so you have to shop about and ask for all in fees.

Put this up against sporting leases which probably average (if you can get them) anything up to and beyond £7 an acre PA (depending on area) and you’ll see it’s maybe a cheaper option by the time you’ve factored in everything else including the obligatory rifle and scope that everyone will be sure to tell you that you need as it’s what they’ve got.

 

[VSS]

I’m going to throw a curve ball in here, not wanting to sound like a spoilsport but…. You don’t actually need a FAC - what your looking to do can be achieved by going on guided stalks locally using an estate rifle and purchasing the carcass if you’re successful at game dealer rates.

For the amount your looking to actually shoot just now, if it’s all for personal consumption and eating, it’ll be far cheaper/cost effective in the long run with zero pressure for numbers and you’ll have, or should have, someone taking you who can show you all the best practice stuff etc and talk you through it and you’ll build the ‘experience’ you want as too many folk fudge it and their ‘carcasses’ look like they’ve been done by Freddie Kruger and don’t improve.

If circumstances change in the future and you have time/ground etc you will get a FAC no bother at all.

Sorry but I’m being honest, I feel it’s pointless shelling out wads of cash to have your own rifle just so you can air it once or twice a year and tell your mates all about it - there I’ve said it and I’m sure there will be plenty along soon to tell me I’m wrong (but I bet a few went down this route and now have a rifle but no ground, and less room in a cupboard for stuff they do use more than once or twice a year after they’ve moaned about having ‘their pants pulled down paying for a stalk’ but won’t pay for ground - go figure).

Very true. If you're just after 2 or 3 carcasses per year for the freezer then that would be far more cost effective.
There is still stalking ground to be had for nothing, but if you've got to lease a bit of ground then it could be anything from a few hundred to a few thousand £££s per year, and probably a cull target to meet otherwise you'll find that the lease is offered to someone else next year. Which means as well as the cost you've got to put in the hours. And purchase kit over and above the basic rifle / binos / knife etc. Maybe highseats, chiller, all costly stuff. It could end up being very expensive venison.

 

[75]

As others have said, females are cheaper. Something around £80-100 an outing on does (2-3hrs am or pm). Some places charge a shot fee on top, others don't. Carcass probably £20-30. Bucks more expensive. Couple of hundred quid for a day on the hinds on the hill, give or take. Some folk will charge you a few quid to use estate rifle. If all you're doing is going on paid stalks then this approach makes a lot of sense.

If you do want a FAC at some point then belt and braces approach - do a couple of paid stalks, do your DSC1, book a couple more stalks in future. Send application to local firearms team along with evidence of stalks (past and future) and DSC1. You don't technically need all of that but it will make the whole thing smooth and there won't be anything for them to push back on.

Finding your own ground locally is hard. Some will argue it's all about money but I think it's got less to do with money and all about trust. Yes, you could join a syndicate but you'll likely have to travel a good distance and places in good syndicates are like hens teeth and are usually snapped up by word of mouth so are rarely advertised. None of the ground I have permission on costs me a penny or is stalked by anyone else but all of it came through recommendation or personal relationships and it took time (years not weeks).

Interestingly, I once undertook an exercise to find a lease in the north of england - 2hr radius of Manchester. That covers a big chunk of land! Spoke to dozens of land agents, advertised in Farmers Weekly etc etc. There was simply nothing available, regardless of how much money I would have been willing to spend.