Not hugely experienced but since getting my t3x in 6.5CM this Easter I’ve only been using the sako blade 120gn, was recommended to use them by a stalker friend with the same rifle (who uses it as an estate rifle on the reds to great effect). Groups well out of the rifle, expensive but I’m not doing target shooting with it. Have had 11 bucks with it so far and very impressed, mix of neck and chest shots. Will be out on the hinds with it this season and hoping for the same performance.
The solid copper forum.
- Thread starter Nimrod1960
- Start date
Ronin
Distinguished Member
I started out with conventional cup and core bullets like everyone else
Then tried Barnes which I didn’t like due to inconsistency (they were formed by rolling not lathe turning )
This was with a 25-06 which became a 6.5/284
I also had 6.5:47 and 308 plus 338 lm for range use
Back then I experimented with Lutz Moellers bullets including his LM105 in 338, some from a guy in England who was making them himself Bernie Montana and then found Gerald Shultz (from South Africa) who made GS Custom bullets
His HV range were perfect for my needs (in 6.5/284 and 6.5/47
I used them exclusively in 110 and 95 g till they were no longer available - about 2 years ago for 3 barrels worth of deer in the 6.5:284 and a barrel’s worth in the 47(I changed the rifle)
I also used a couple of hundred of GS Custom HV 125 g in 284 Win which replaced the 6.5/284 rifle that broke ,,(Sako extractor pocket elongated to the extent it would no longer remain in place so I scrapped it)
I used the last of the GS Customs about 12 months ago and moved to Hasler in the 284 win
They performed perfectly well but I didn’t feel the love for them so have now swapped to Yew Tree in 130 g in the 284 and I think 95 in the 6.5/47
So far I am impressed with the Yew Tree - the load is single hole (.2 moa) and returns and Es of 13
I’ve yet to take anything other than classic side facing shots on reds with it so quartering performance has yet to be tested personally
As far as general LTS performance goes I can honestly say I’ve almost zero issue with their terminal ballistics with four recorded animals requiring follow up shots with GS Custom (all under high intensity culling situation- where the animals were aware of what was happening and were not particularly conducive to that),,,
Had two reds require secondaries with the Haslers that failed (from wound channel) to expand despite doing 3300 ,,,
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Scipio
Well-Known Member
This will be my first season with non leads, but the idea of the thread is Good, and i shall Report back with my findings. 
Reading back through some of the earlier posts, i must say that whilst disagreements on matters is often interesting, and in fact can fuel further learning on all sides, it is Paramount to keep the tone civil and decent in the process.
So please gents, though all of us can get frustrated or provoked from time to time, let us try to play the ball and not the Man
Reading back through some of the earlier posts, i must say that whilst disagreements on matters is often interesting, and in fact can fuel further learning on all sides, it is Paramount to keep the tone civil and decent in the process.
So please gents, though all of us can get frustrated or provoked from time to time, let us try to play the ball and not the Man
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kenbro
Well-Known Member
Hi Ronin,
Nice and comprehensive reply post to my question.
Would make a nice Sticky.
I thank you.
Ken.
Ps. Work centres will make short work of bullet manufacturing.
NickJ
Well-Known Member
I went 100% non lead six seasons ago:
I've been using Yewtree 114gr TLRs in my 6.5x55 for four seasons now @Selous kindly loads them for me with 49.0gr of N555 powder, MV 3080 fps. I have had virtually no issues on a couple of hundred + reds, fallow and roe.
I found factory copper was just not performing well on the hill hinds at ranges over 250 yds. There was minimal reaction to shot, blood trail and a narrow wound channel/exit.
With the Yewtree I've taken a few hinds at around 350 yds and the expansion has been impressive with exit wounds of golf ball size plus, they don't run more than 40 yds in general.
They do make a bit of a mess of roe if you hit the shoulder but I'm too lazy to switch zero with a separate low ground/roe round.
I put the increase in performance down to better bullet design and pushing it faster.
I've shot around 100 deer with my spare rifle, a 30:06 with Geco Evo and they have been effective on reds out to 350 yds. It's the only round I have tried with them as I start with the cheapest brand and my rifle (Sako 85) liked them! In fact they were cheaper than the lead Norma I used.
I've been using Yewtree 114gr TLRs in my 6.5x55 for four seasons now @Selous kindly loads them for me with 49.0gr of N555 powder, MV 3080 fps. I have had virtually no issues on a couple of hundred + reds, fallow and roe.
I found factory copper was just not performing well on the hill hinds at ranges over 250 yds. There was minimal reaction to shot, blood trail and a narrow wound channel/exit.
With the Yewtree I've taken a few hinds at around 350 yds and the expansion has been impressive with exit wounds of golf ball size plus, they don't run more than 40 yds in general.
They do make a bit of a mess of roe if you hit the shoulder but I'm too lazy to switch zero with a separate low ground/roe round.
I put the increase in performance down to better bullet design and pushing it faster.
I've shot around 100 deer with my spare rifle, a 30:06 with Geco Evo and they have been effective on reds out to 350 yds. It's the only round I have tried with them as I start with the cheapest brand and my rifle (Sako 85) liked them! In fact they were cheaper than the lead Norma I used.
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nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
This is what I'm using in my Creedmoor after years of reloading. Yes, they're expensive but I didn't need to spend a load of money developing an accurate round and they're reliable to source.
I've got 2 boxes of the 120 grain in 308 to use before probably going back to the 162 grain as I believe the 120s in 30i are either not being made or not being imported.
I've used the Blades for a range of head/neck and chest shots and they seem to work very well on both type of shot with good expansion to feel confident with a head shot but not as much as the Yewtree on chest shots so less damage but no runners yet.
kenbro
Well-Known Member
Hi, Have you tried and of Lehigh’s bullets?
Ken.
Ronin
Distinguished Member
Thabks Ken, I’m sure there are others like me with similar long term experience of non lead
@Selous
I’m sure Yew Tree and Virtus have solved repeatable turning of the LTS but it was a “thing” with GSCustom that the tolerances required for repeatable consistent results required extremely fine machining
This is one of the reasons GSCustom are no longer available in Europe - they were made under licence by Tiemens’s and Tiemans in the Netherlands but had to cease due to the manufacturer not being able to hold the tolerances stated by GS Custom
With Cu being far harder than lead - any dimensional differences (in particular an increase in diameter) will cause massive increases in pressure internally
I have had good results with the .243 Sako 80gn power head blade in a Blaser R8.
I was at the range last Friday chatting to a couple of chaps using a Garmin chrono, he offered to demo it for me, turns out after a bit of maths I'm only getting 1590 ft/lb. Needless to say, they still absolutely do the job. I was quite happy in blissful ignorance.
I was at the range last Friday chatting to a couple of chaps using a Garmin chrono, he offered to demo it for me, turns out after a bit of maths I'm only getting 1590 ft/lb. Needless to say, they still absolutely do the job. I was quite happy in blissful ignorance.
Ronin
Distinguished Member
I haven’t
Warner Tool make some impressive solids for target shooting as do Cutting Edge
I understand Berger are also making solids now
None of the above suitable for deer - well whilst we know all animals react badly to bullets , they are not designed to expand
The Warner Tool design incorporate a ring cut into the nose, which increases stability at extended ranges - courtesy of a rocket engineer (Jim Boatwright) and the Cutting Edge have won countless ELR competitions
Lathe Turned Solids are a fascinating addition to the toolbox of anyone interested in serious accuracy (providing your range allows them)
Utectok
Well-Known Member
Out of interest what barrel length? I’m getting 3060fps with the same bullet in a 24” barrel and 51gn of n555?! Also do you know your COAL? As you I have had very similar experiences with the bullet excellent in general. Roe’s under 100m are better head or neck shot though!
I switched over to copper in my 243,6.5CM and 30-06 about a year ago. Having found good loads with Barnes TTSX in all of them. I’ve dropped in bullet weight as had been suggested to go lighter and faster. Not sure if that’s true but all of them have shot plenty of deer and have behaved no different to lead in my humble opinion.
80gr 243
100gr 6.5
130gr 30-06 and soon will be testing 150gr
The pic below is a 130 we retrieved from the ground
80gr 243
100gr 6.5
130gr 30-06 and soon will be testing 150gr
The pic below is a 130 we retrieved from the ground
Some expansion shots recovered - VERY few in 6 years! 80gr TTSX (.243) on the left and 130gr (.308) on the right.
NickJ
Well-Known Member
NickJ
Well-Known Member
I should add that 5 of the 6 guys I stalk with have been using home loaded Barnes TTSX for more than five years with good success
As for factory...obviously nearly all contractors have to (or officially should..) use factory non lead - and their results speak for themselves
As for factory...obviously nearly all contractors have to (or officially should..) use factory non lead - and their results speak for themselves
I got into stalking after 30 years away from shooting in 2021......and TBH, have only really shot monolithic ammunition since coming back. Firstly, commercially available - last couple of years - homeloads.
Currently utilising in .222 50 grain TTSX; with the tips pulled. A very new choice is in 6.5x55 114 grain Yewtree.....but just about to try TTSX 120. Lastly, .308 Fox 130.
Still to make my mind up about the Yewtree. Seems explosive on Roe.
Also may try 150 in Fox around 2600 fps. Expansion shouldn't be a problem, and have found a lot of bruising with the 130's in Fallow and especially Roe.
Too far into the journey to think about using lead TBH.
Currently utilising in .222 50 grain TTSX; with the tips pulled. A very new choice is in 6.5x55 114 grain Yewtree.....but just about to try TTSX 120. Lastly, .308 Fox 130.
Still to make my mind up about the Yewtree. Seems explosive on Roe.
Also may try 150 in Fox around 2600 fps. Expansion shouldn't be a problem, and have found a lot of bruising with the 130's in Fallow and especially Roe.
Too far into the journey to think about using lead TBH.
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Complete copper convert here for deer stalking - have used them in ELR in .50 BMG for 12 years or so. I’m an avid reloader and enjoy working up loads and experimenting. So far successful combinations tried are:
.243 80.5 gr Yew Tree
.6.5 CM 124 peregrine
.308 125 Virtus / 130 Barnes’s TTSX / 130 Fox / 140 LOS
.30-06 165 Fox (load development on going)
.300WM 148 Yew Tree
.338LM 274 Peregrine
The .308 loads have been brilliant on deer. Everything has been half MOA or in some case much better.
Would welcome a dedicated forum to discuss - I don’t want to debate lead v copper, I just want to get on and use them. The only disadvantage for me is the cost of them, takes a little of the fun of experimenting and load development when they’re £60 plus for 50 but so be it. I do like supporting UK manufacturers and have nothing but praise for Virtus and Yew Tree in my dealings with them.
.243 80.5 gr Yew Tree
.6.5 CM 124 peregrine
.308 125 Virtus / 130 Barnes’s TTSX / 130 Fox / 140 LOS
.30-06 165 Fox (load development on going)
.300WM 148 Yew Tree
.338LM 274 Peregrine
The .308 loads have been brilliant on deer. Everything has been half MOA or in some case much better.
Would welcome a dedicated forum to discuss - I don’t want to debate lead v copper, I just want to get on and use them. The only disadvantage for me is the cost of them, takes a little of the fun of experimenting and load development when they’re £60 plus for 50 but so be it. I do like supporting UK manufacturers and have nothing but praise for Virtus and Yew Tree in my dealings with them.
I’m 20 plus years into non lead ammunition (same as @Ronin) and would not go back to lead cup and core. I have used Barnes, Fox, yew Tree, Virtus precision, Cutting Edge, Peregrine and Geco in calibres including 6.5mm, 7mm, .308, .30-06, .338, .375 and .458 on animals from 20kg to 700kg in size. My impressions so far are that the monolithic bullets have no problem penetrating deep which means it is safe to reduce bullet weight below that of lead cup and core bullets in a similar calibre. The second point is that some bullet designs need velocity to encourage proper expansion. This seems to be less of a problem these days as low velocity performance is engineered out. It seems to be more difficult to design a bullet to expand and stay intact compared to fragmenting after impact. I think this is where the longer standing players in the field like Barnes and Peregrine have the advantage if that is the performance that you desire. I personally prefer the weight retention designs for normal stalking ranges sub 300m but see a real application for fragmentating designs where ranges beyond 250m are to be expected. I also see a greater likelihood of deer dropping to shot with larger diameter bullets. My .308 with 130g TTSX bullets almost invariably drops roe with chest shots but runners seem much more common with the 6.5x47 and 100g TTSX or 6.5x55 and 120g TTSX despite velocities being almost identical. In short there is nothing to worry about and there will be a bullet to suit everyone’s needs and preferences.
A very sensible thread. Many thanks to the op for starting it.
I only shoot my own hand loads and I’ve been using non lead bullets now for about 6 or so years, a slight overlap with lead though as I was using up a load of 150 gr Nosler BT bullets that I used to use in my .30-06 and .308 win
Anyway, 1st ones I used were the :
Nosler E-Tip in 140 gr, .30 cal
in the schultz & larsen .30-06 and RPA woodland stalker.308 Win
I wasn’t that impressed with them , I only used them until they were used up (they didn’t group that well and were hard for me to get easily ) i also had 2 runners out of about 60 odd kills, (mostly fallow) which I needed my dog to track too. so I ditched those and went for a very different bullet, namely the :
RWS Evo Green in 139 gr, .30 cal
I’ve been using those since in the Schultz & larsen .30-06 - everything from fallow , muntjac , wild Boar and Roe deer has been killed extremely quickly and with no meat damage worth complaining about.
I’ve had exactly the same results as above using the RWS Evo green 139 gr in my RPA woodland stalker chambered in .308 Win
A very new one for me is the Barns TTSX in 140 gr in 7mm
In January of this year I came across a virtually unused 7x57 barrel for my Schultz & Larsen , it was very cheap and in lovely condition so I thought I’d give it a go. So far Ive been really enjoying learning to use it. I’ve only taken a few wild boar with that barrel though using the 140 grain Barns Ttsx bullets but the results were very good with instant knock down, almost instant kills and also extremely little meat damage.
I went with the 140 gr Ttsx because they are nearly half the price of the RWS Evo green bullets.
I’ve also got a load of 7mm Barns Ttsx bullets in 120 gr that were on special offer so i thought they might be nice to try out, but I’ve yet to do those as I’m still really enjoying getting to learn to hunt with my new 7x57 barrel using the 140 gr Barns Ttsx.
Kindest regards, Olaf
I only shoot my own hand loads and I’ve been using non lead bullets now for about 6 or so years, a slight overlap with lead though as I was using up a load of 150 gr Nosler BT bullets that I used to use in my .30-06 and .308 win
Anyway, 1st ones I used were the :
Nosler E-Tip in 140 gr, .30 cal
in the schultz & larsen .30-06 and RPA woodland stalker.308 Win
I wasn’t that impressed with them , I only used them until they were used up (they didn’t group that well and were hard for me to get easily ) i also had 2 runners out of about 60 odd kills, (mostly fallow) which I needed my dog to track too. so I ditched those and went for a very different bullet, namely the :
RWS Evo Green in 139 gr, .30 cal
I’ve been using those since in the Schultz & larsen .30-06 - everything from fallow , muntjac , wild Boar and Roe deer has been killed extremely quickly and with no meat damage worth complaining about.
I’ve had exactly the same results as above using the RWS Evo green 139 gr in my RPA woodland stalker chambered in .308 Win
A very new one for me is the Barns TTSX in 140 gr in 7mm
In January of this year I came across a virtually unused 7x57 barrel for my Schultz & Larsen , it was very cheap and in lovely condition so I thought I’d give it a go. So far Ive been really enjoying learning to use it. I’ve only taken a few wild boar with that barrel though using the 140 grain Barns Ttsx bullets but the results were very good with instant knock down, almost instant kills and also extremely little meat damage.
I went with the 140 gr Ttsx because they are nearly half the price of the RWS Evo green bullets.
I’ve also got a load of 7mm Barns Ttsx bullets in 120 gr that were on special offer so i thought they might be nice to try out, but I’ve yet to do those as I’m still really enjoying getting to learn to hunt with my new 7x57 barrel using the 140 gr Barns Ttsx.
Kindest regards, Olaf
AM_Lillycombe
Well-Known Member
I’ve been recommended Virtus by a few people now. Apparently very consistently accurate bullets.
They don’t do an 8.6/.338 bullet unfortunately. I'm looking for a heavy (around 300gr) 338 projectile to make subsonic ammo for my 338arc. At least until Hornady starts bringing in complete ammo.
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