Shoot more Deer !

[David Barker]

I know what your saying shooting bucks doesn’t lower the birth rate, but nothing you can do until the does come back Into season.

But if it’s brown it’s down I suppose

Not a saying i ever say and would not support that. I work with in seasons and manage my deer properly and sustainably. While we have the option to shoot males all year round and have other options like night shooting and thermal. These have never been needed by my friends or my self (Tools that will stay in the box) Most options have been trailed in Scotland with out success. While you southerners complain about dealing with large numbers it is nothing compared to what the estates and Rangers have had to deal with here. Mange your deer properly and you will have no problems use the brown its down attitude and you are never going to get your deer to a sustainable lesson. The next time you moan at deer and numbers try managing them in 3 foot of snow 6 thousand feet up a mountain.

 

[David Barker]

Maths are hard....

Maths are very hard to most deer managers so removing to males and the time and effort that exerts will only fill a freezer. The group are now wiser and will be more difficult to manage come there season. The two deer get put in to the food chain taking the place of females so the need for venison by the game dealer is reduced. 2 males in the medium to long term means nothing. This thread was about shooting more deer to make a difference. Great the chap got to buck calf's game dealer happy or freezer full. But lets not say it reduces the deer population by any %.

 

[VSS]

Just to ask a question, because I don’t actually know?

For your niche market venison in North Wales, do you label your Farmed deer differently to Wild deer when you package it?

Firstly, just to set the record straight, they're not farmed deer, they're park deer, which is completely different. Park deer come under the same law as wild deer.
My package labels have all the info about my own herd of deer, but in addition they state that at times I also sell venison from wild deer, culled to protect fragile ecosystems from overgrazing. (I stalk a SSSI, before you ask).
I don't label each packet differently (park or wild), but I certainly would if I was selling venison from farmed deer. But I'm not, and have no intention of, so that's OK.

 

[David Barker]

Firstly, just to set the record straight, they're not farmed deer, they're park deer, which is completely different. Park deer come under the same law as wild deer.
My package labels have all the info about my own herd of deer, but in addition they state that at times I also sell venison from wild deer, culled to protect fragile ecosystems from overgrazing.
I don't label each packet differently (park or wild), but I certainly would if I was selling venison from farmed deer. But I'm not, and have no intention of, so that's OK.

Do you name the type of deer. ? Just out of interest and what is the response if you do.

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

Not a saying i ever say and would not support that. I work with in seasons and manage my deer properly and sustainably. While we have the option to shoot males all year round and have other options like night shooting and thermal. These have never been needed by my friends or my self (Tools that will stay in the box) Most options have been trailed in Scotland with out success. While you southerners complain about dealing with large numbers it is nothing compared to what the estates and Rangers have had to deal with here. Mange your deer properly and you will have no problems use the brown its down attitude and you are never going to get your deer to a sustainable lesson. The next time you moan at deer and numbers try managing them in 3 foot of snow 6 thousand feet up a mountain.

The real problem is the herd species are not managed properly, and that is fact!

You get all these young whippersnappers, who are God’s gift to deer, stalking and management all over social media posing behind their big stags, Roe bucks and massive fallow bucks and where are they when it’s -4° outside, culling nothing with a hat rack hold up in bed, I wager squeezing their Mrs backside!

Aren’t they clever?

Fallow in England are probably the most miss managed species of the UK6 and while there is no kind of coordination or reliable collaboration, the problem will get worse!

So I feel your pain in the north I will assure you. I would love to be able to manage deer like you do, but down here, it is completely impractical, we need to be brutally honest, open night licenses, complete open seasons and some very big skips, to the point where her species in England need to be borderline wiped out and then left to start again properly.

That is just my personal opinion of observation over the last 15/20 years, those you know me know, I’ve been saying this for a very very long time but nothing proper seems to be done about it sadly.

There, I’ve said it , everything that a lot of people are thinking, but nobody dare say it!

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

Firstly, just to set the record straight, they're not farmed deer, they're park deer, which is completely different. Park deer come under the same law as wild deer.
My package labels have all the info about my own herd of deer, but in addition they state that at times I also sell venison from wild deer, culled to protect fragile ecosystems from overgrazing.
I don't label each packet differently (park or wild), but I certainly would if I was selling venison from farmed deer. But I'm not, and have no intention of, so that's OK.

That’s fine I asked the question because I didn’t know.

Thank you

 

[VSS]

Do you name the type of deer. ? Just out of interest and what is the response if you do.

It's all fallow, and I provide loads of POS info about them.

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

It's all fallow, and I provide loads of POS info about them.

So just 1 more question if I may?

What is your ratio of wild to park in your market place?

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Over here in Germany I have never seen venison on sale in a butchers booth even though it is a very wooded country as compared to the UK I have often seen it for sale in the UK as vac packed in butchers shops and supermarkets though from who knows where.
Many restaurants here have reh rehragout (roe stew) or hirshbraten (roasted red deer) on the menu but the UK just seems to always call it venison stew. Perhaps the catering world needs to be more specific in what they are offering ie muntjac loins or some such to attract more public interest. The main game food sales here are done through the game dealers network that sell it on to the catering trade and the public.

 

[VSS]

So just 1 more question if I may?

What is your ratio of wild to park in your market place?

That is very variable. I haven't been doing it long enough for a pattern to establish itself. Each year so far has been different. However, as you know there are very few wild deer in Wales. If I lived somewhere like the English Midlands, where the seem to be plenty of opportunities for shooting unlimited wild fallow, I wouldn't bother keeping my own herd. The main reason for keeping my own deer is that relying on wild deer wasn't reliable enough. There simply aren't enough of them here to get a continuity of supply.

 

[gelert]

That is very variable. I haven't been doing it long enough for a pattern to establish itself. Each year so far has been different. However, as you know there are very few wild deer in Wales. If I lived somewhere like the English Midlands, where the seem to be plenty of opportunities for shooting unlimited wild fallow, I wouldn't bother keeping my own herd. The main reason for keeping my own deer is that relying on wild deer wasn't reliable enough. There simply aren't enough of them here to get a continuity of supply.

That's the point I was trying to make. You have absolute control of your park deer, for the most part their weight, size, diet age etc at the time of culling will be the same, thus resulting in a carcass that will be consistent throughout, which is what the general public favor.. You can add to your park by introducing better animals, while you might not be a deer farm you are in fact farming deer and the end result is organic venison which sells far better than wild venison.

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

That's the point I was trying to make. You have absolute control of your park deer, for the most part their weight, size, diet age etc at the time of culling will be the same, thus resulting in a carcass that will be consistent throughout, which is what the general public favor.. You can add to your park by introducing better animals, while you might not be a deer farm you are in fact farming deer and the end result is organic venison which sells far better than wild venison.

That’s a very valid point!

 

[Tim.243]

That’s a very valid point!

Guess the Muntjac/CWD will be not be on the menu at the Dragon & Daffodil

 

[VSS]

That's the point I was trying to make. You have absolute control of your park deer, for the most part their weight, size, diet age etc at the time of culling will be the same, thus resulting in a carcass that will be consistent throughout, which is what the general public favor.. You can add to your park by introducing better animals, while you might not be a deer farm you are in fact farming deer and the end result is organic venison which sells far better than wild venison.

In theory yes, if I was doing it on a bigger scale with more (and better) land at my disposal. But in practice, not so much. I initially started my small herd to supplement what I could source from the wild. Basically so that if I had a customer for venison, and stalking had not been successful, I could cull one of my own deer rather than lose the customer.
Interestingly, the carcass weights and conformation of the wild fallow I process are better by far than my park deer. The wild deer raid people's corn fields and maize fields, and get pretty plump in the autumn, but with the park deer I am not allowed to feed any cereal etc to fatten them up otherwise I would lose my status as a park and become a farmed herd, and then I wouldn't be allowed to kill and process them myself.
The only supplementary feeding I can provide is for welfare reasons, eg hay in severe weather.

 

[308tikka]

Hi Tikka
you didn't answer my question ?Given your distain of BASC ,which ever government it is threatens shooting who will take forward your views and defend your rights ?

Chill

Any luck finding BASC success stories over the last 20 years?

 

[JTO]

Think the odds of a permission were calculated as 150,000:1 on previous thread.

Is that based on the number of BASC members by any chance?

 

[75]

In theory yes, if I was doing it on a bigger scale with more (and better) land at my disposal. But in practice, not so much. I initially started my small herd to supplement what I could source from the wild. Basically so that if I had a customer for venison, and stalking had not been successful, I could cull one of my own deer rather than lose the customer.

I'd love to do this - nice bit of rough meadow over our garden wall that I could rent off the neighbours as it's hard to farm and produces very little hay. The cost of deer fencing is the bit that puts me off!!

 

[User00047]

I'd love to do this - nice bit of rough meadow over our garden wall that I could rent off the neighbours as it's hard to farm and produces very little hay. The cost of deer fencing is the bit that puts me off!!

It usually takes a bit of money to get enterprises up and running.
Maybe you could get a grant if you’re starting a small business ?
VSS might know how to find out?

 

[JTO]

How many sporting F.A.C. holders are there?
How many deer need to be gulled?
What is the average number being shot per certificate holder at present?

 

[devon deer stalker]

Just to ask a question, because I don’t actually know?

For your niche market venison in North Wales, do you label your Farmed deer differently to Wild deer when you package it?

I just found this thread on the site, quite interesting views and interpretations of wild/park/farmed

Park deer vs farmed deer

Is there a clear distinction between the two? Am I right in thinking that park deer are generally culled with a rifle whereas farmed deer are slaughtered at an abattoir? Presumably farmed deer are considered livestock by DEFRA & APHA, so what is the status of park deer?

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