Steel shot??
- Thread starter Smellydog
- Start date
Chamber size on box is a minimum not a maximum
You can shoot 65mm/2 1/2” though a 3” without issue
As a rule of thumb if the cartridge has a long case head as yours do, they are HP steel/ higher pressure
The “22mm case head” on that box
There are plenty of standard performance steel cartridges for game 5at you can put through any game gun and several for a 2 1/2” chamber
The info out there is often muddied with opinions and bull****
Consider this:
The approximate difference between 1/2 and 3/4 choke is 5 thou, 0.005” or 0.12mm
Nearly all steel cartridges use plastic or bio version cups that contain the shot and keep it away from the barrel wall
Cups are malleable and soft
Cup thickness is in the region of 20 thou, 0.020 or 0.5mm
Regardless of shot material, what is more likely?
That the cup deform/compress through the choke with a harder shot material inside the cup
Or
The cup does not deform/compress and the shot doesn’t move around under load?
I don’t doubt that driving 36/38/40+ grams of steel at th higher velocities of he HP cartridges drives pressures up
But I do not agree that everyone should start opening the chokes on their Dicksons and Purdeys from 3/4 to 1/2 to shoot standard performance steel or alloy cupped/plaswad cartridges
I have several customers on these cartridges in old side by sides running 3/4 chokes who are several seasons in without issue
They also work to knock things out the sky if you put them in the right place
There are lots of options out there, some are bound to better than others in your gun for your application……just like the lead ones
Check out BioAmmo’s range of Bismuth alloy cartridges
Best of both worlds
Without the cost of Bismuth
You can shoot 65mm/2 1/2” though a 3” without issue
As a rule of thumb if the cartridge has a long case head as yours do, they are HP steel/ higher pressure
The “22mm case head” on that box
There are plenty of standard performance steel cartridges for game 5at you can put through any game gun and several for a 2 1/2” chamber
The info out there is often muddied with opinions and bull****
Consider this:
The approximate difference between 1/2 and 3/4 choke is 5 thou, 0.005” or 0.12mm
Nearly all steel cartridges use plastic or bio version cups that contain the shot and keep it away from the barrel wall
Cups are malleable and soft
Cup thickness is in the region of 20 thou, 0.020 or 0.5mm
Regardless of shot material, what is more likely?
That the cup deform/compress through the choke with a harder shot material inside the cup
Or
The cup does not deform/compress and the shot doesn’t move around under load?
I don’t doubt that driving 36/38/40+ grams of steel at th higher velocities of he HP cartridges drives pressures up
But I do not agree that everyone should start opening the chokes on their Dicksons and Purdeys from 3/4 to 1/2 to shoot standard performance steel or alloy cupped/plaswad cartridges
I have several customers on these cartridges in old side by sides running 3/4 chokes who are several seasons in without issue
They also work to knock things out the sky if you put them in the right place
There are lots of options out there, some are bound to better than others in your gun for your application……just like the lead ones
Check out BioAmmo’s range of Bismuth alloy cartridges
Best of both worlds
Without the cost of Bismuth
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Only comment I would add if you are shooting older side by sides is to use something like Eley Grand prix Steel or Gamebore Regal Steel which are specifically designed to be used with old guns.
I have put a couple of cases of Eley through my old guns. No problems at all. They do shoot slightly differently to lead - they start out at a higher velocity, so your timing needs to be a little different and it takes a few shots to get used to this. But once dialled in birds drop dead when you hit, keep flying when you miss.
Very well put, and understandable.
I believe prior to 2016 the FDL proof mark did not exist so no guns prior to this date will show it? This doesn't necessarily mean that they don't meet the standard, only that they were not tested to the HP standard..
Is it possible to have lets say a 2010 BNP proofed shotgun re tested and proofed to HP / FDL, just for peace of mind?
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
The Fiochhi cartridges 38g I have, have 1050 bar written on them.
Where does that pressure put them in term of type?
Just found this...
Fiocchi Wetland 70mm – 32 No 4 steel and 35g No 2 steel
These 2¾in cartridges for ducks and geese are powered by the Italian loader’s powder and primers. They have a maximum working pressure of 1,050 bar, so you will not need a magnum-proof gun, but will require a steel-proofed one. Well made, with a six-star crimp at the end of the dark green case and a silver 22mm head at the business end, they fire crisply with no little recoil. The shot size is even, but on closer inspection, one in 10 of the 204 pellets had odd cracks or were slightly misshapen. The plastic wad starfished evenly. I shot a teal, missing with my first barrel and then killing cleanly with the second. Inspecting the carcass revealed good pellet penetration. Pattern testing at 40 yards with a mod choke revealed 201 pellets in a tight, consistent pattern. It’\’’s a useful, dual-purpose cartridge.
So I guess if the gun is choked open and not paper thin muzzles we are good to go despite 22mm caps!
Where does that pressure put them in term of type?
Just found this...
Fiocchi Wetland 70mm – 32 No 4 steel and 35g No 2 steel
These 2¾in cartridges for ducks and geese are powered by the Italian loader’s powder and primers. They have a maximum working pressure of 1,050 bar, so you will not need a magnum-proof gun, but will require a steel-proofed one. Well made, with a six-star crimp at the end of the dark green case and a silver 22mm head at the business end, they fire crisply with no little recoil. The shot size is even, but on closer inspection, one in 10 of the 204 pellets had odd cracks or were slightly misshapen. The plastic wad starfished evenly. I shot a teal, missing with my first barrel and then killing cleanly with the second. Inspecting the carcass revealed good pellet penetration. Pattern testing at 40 yards with a mod choke revealed 201 pellets in a tight, consistent pattern. It’\’’s a useful, dual-purpose cartridge.
So I guess if the gun is choked open and not paper thin muzzles we are good to go despite 22mm caps!
Last edited:
A couple of posts have stated that standard steel cartridges are different to shoot because they have a higher muzzle velocity than lead catridges. According to the manufacturers' data, this is not generslly true, and in the cases it is true the difference is insignificantly small - under 2% and more than compensated for by the inferior ballistics of steel.
SUch claims might be treated with due scepticism.
SUch claims might be treated with due scepticism.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Will certainly try some when it comes out in 20 bore.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Absolutely.
High velocity isn't that good a thing in a shotgun anyway.
Lots of reasons but generally in this context the higher speed you push a pellet the greater the resistance acts on it and any advantages are soon lost. Especially lighter than lead pellets!
1050 bar is HP steel, 740bar is standard steel.
Using the HP steel in a non HP steel proofed gun could get very interesting should an accident happen and the owner or bystander gets hurt or worst killed then will the insurance pay out for using the wrong ammunition in the gun?
I know we are not America but in a case over there a person got significant damages when at a range a person got hurt by a fellow shooter using 7.62 nato ammo in a .308 winchester firearm. In the case an expert witness said the wrong ammunition had been used as it clearly stated on the firearm .308 winchester.
Personally i would only put HP steel through a steel proofed gun, however in my limited experience of using HP steel it’s not pleasant to shoot and best used through an auto.
Last edited:
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
This so confusing. I was sold them as standard pressure!
Ok. I'll dig the hattistani out.
Ratcatcher
Well-Known Member
I told @Smellydog I'd had 14 answers to my#20 post, now I've had about 20 and I'm still no bloody wiser
As a rule of thumb if the cartridge has a long case head as yours do, they are HP steel/ higher pressure
The “22mm case head” on that box
I would not rely on that to be certain of a cartridge not being HP steel. Rules of proof state the cartridge must have a warning printed on it, but again it can rub away.
The “22mm case head” on that box
I would not rely on that to be certain of a cartridge not being HP steel. Rules of proof state the cartridge must have a warning printed on it, but again it can rub away.
If your gun has 3" chambers is it not magnum proofed to 1200 bar
The cartridges have a max pressure of 1050 so you have 150 bar in hand.
This is of course not the full 1320 bar of guns carrying the fleur de lys symbol. So it is your choice.
My 1991/2 silver pigeon has 3" chambers (magnum proofed) and I've been using 1050 bar loads for the last 8 years with no problem. (Nr3 3.5mm 32g for hunting and some lighter loads for clays ) I don't 100% trust it so I do keep an eye on my barrels, but absolutely not been an issue so far. You should see some of the old guns people are using here. I do sometimes wonder if they check the pressure of the cartridges they buy.
Flash G 74
Well-Known Member
Hello, Do you mean High Velocity ?? I would think that a real No No
Ratcatcher
Well-Known Member
Of course to simplify things the manufacturer's could have had one colour for standard steel and another for HP steel? I recently bought some standard steel only to have the box plastered in warnings about using HP steel in non Fd Lys guns! To the point where I started to doubt what I'd actually bought!
Ratcatcher
Well-Known Member
Standard steel
Flash G 74
Well-Known Member
Hello, Ah ok, i presume the same but no more than half choke ??
Hull recommendation is to match chamber length to cartridge length when using steel shot, to reduce the risk of damaging the forcing cone.
From above post I wonder how this will affect clay shooting as all clay steel loads that I’ve seen are in 2 3/4 cases and most modern clay guns are 3” chambered
From above post I wonder how this will affect clay shooting as all clay steel loads that I’ve seen are in 2 3/4 cases and most modern clay guns are 3” chambered
Utectok
Well-Known Member
One is not supposed to shoot High Pressure steel through normal pressure shotguns. I was advised years ago if you have a relatively modern shotgun (in my case a 1985 beretta 3” proofed and a 20 bore parazzi 1990s also 3” proofed ) it will handle them fine through 1/2 or 1/4 chokes. Basically I don’t think these shotguns are redesigned for HP loads just proofed to higher level. Of course reproof is an option but I’ve never bothered and shot hundreds of HP loads through various non steel proofed shotguns with no ill effects. But of course this is a personal decision based on the experience of many wildfowlers. If you have a gun made in the early part of the 20th century don’t risk it.
velocity is not an indication of the type of steel shot cartridges, standard or High Performance.
Similar threads
