The solid copper forum.

[Nimrod1960]

The last shot fired at the deer was your last deer legal one

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) considers prosecutions under the Deer Act for ammunition mismatch to be extremely unlikely, except perhaps in obvious situations like using military-style FMJ rounds. CPS reportedly stated they would not pursue such a case unless there was over a 95% chance of conviction, due to the Act’s ambiguity and the resources required. So far, no known criminal conviction has occurred in the UK specifically for using unauthorized or non‑expanding ammunition on deer.

CPS too busy following immigration critics !

 

[Scipio]

The last shot fired at the deer was your last deer legal one

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) considers prosecutions under the Deer Act for ammunition mismatch to be extremely unlikely, except perhaps in obvious situations like using military-style FMJ rounds. CPS reportedly stated they would not pursue such a case unless there was over a 95% chance of conviction, due to the Act’s ambiguity and the resources required. So far, no known criminal conviction has occurred in the UK specifically for using unauthorized or non‑expanding ammunition on deer.

yep, and, although i dont hunt in the UK but scandinavia and italy, i was also wondering how a ranger or police officer is going to check up on these things?

For example, in Denmark i can legally shoot 100gr 6.5 non leads for all the deer species, as long as the E100 is high enough, but not in Sweden, where the min weight is 120 grns i believe.
But if i just take my "danish 6.5s" to sweden, how are they going to control if i use 100 grn or 120 grns? Are they going to have cops walking random hunting areas, asking for a loaded cartridge, which they then take back to the station, dismantle and weigh the projectile of??

I think they have other things to use their police rescources for in Sweden, at the moment tbh.

 

[25 Sharps]

I have had good results with the .243 Sako 80gn power head blade in a Blaser R8.
I was at the range last Friday chatting to a couple of chaps using a Garmin chrono, he offered to demo it for me, turns out after a bit of maths I'm only getting 1590 ft/lb. Needless to say, they still absolutely do the job. I was quite happy in blissful ignorance.

Light bullets and short(er) barrels in .243 will struggle for 1700 ft-lb, whether lead or copper. Lots out there blissfully unaware, as you were!

 

[timbrayford]

Good results. Interesting re chronographs and actual versus published velocities. I wonder what these 243’s are doing with other bullets. With a 100gn bullet you need a velocity of a touch over 2800 fps to meet Scotland’s min of 1750 ft lbs of energy.

I wonder how many of the shorter barrelled 243’s meet the muzzle energy requirements regardless of whether they shoot lead or non lead bullets?

Its possible with uncomfortably close to maximum loads , buying a 270 seemed to be a better solution!

 

[timbrayford]

yep, and, although i dont hunt in the UK but scandinavia and italy, i was also wondering how a ranger or police officer is going to check up on these things?

For example, in Denmark i can legally shoot 100gr 6.5 non leads for all the deer species, as long as the E100 is high enough, but not in Sweden, where the min weight is 120 grns i believe.
But if i just take my "danish 6.5s" to sweden, how are they going to control if i use 100 grn or 120 grns? Are they going to have cops walking random hunting areas, asking for a loaded cartridge, which they then take back to the station, dismantle and weigh the projectile of??

I think they have other things to use their police rescources for in Sweden, at the moment tbh.

I'm an RO at my local club that I've been a member of for 40 odd years. There are various restrictions on MV but apart from the occasional discussion cross referencing with manufacturers claims and published reload data nobody has had to have their rounds chronographed for prove it.

 

[Scipio]

I'm an RO at my local club that I've been a member of for 40 odd years. There are various restrictions on MV but apart from the occasional discussion cross referencing with manufacturers claims and published reload data nobody has had to have their rounds chronographed for prove it.

Hello mate, no, I have never ever heard of that either, and I doubt they'll start to ask hunters for loaded rounds to control if the projectiles are exactly of the legally demanded weight either

Now I am not encouraging hunters to try and see if this assumption is true, but i just doubt it is something the police force in many countries will put significant Resource into enforcing in real life.

 

[timbrayford]

Hello mate, no, I have never ever heard of that either, and I doubt they'll start to ask hunters for loaded rounds to control if the projectiles are exactly of the legally demanded weight either

Now I am not encouraging hunters to try and see if this assumption is true, but i just doubt it is something the police force in many countries will put significant Resource into enforcing in real life.

In common with restrictions on quantities of ammunition held which is pretty much unenforceable except for the odd occasion when the careless or forgetful get caught out.

 

[white van man]

Is anybody using a 7mm PRC for stalking. Would be interested to know which bullets they are using and load data.
Cheers Steve.

 

[3.5mag]

Hi Ronin,
Have you used them exclusively for those two decades?
If not, when and what for?
Thanks, Ken.

 

[kenbro]

With California’s Condor’s range act starting in 2009 I would have thought the bullets makers would have had the lead free bullet job perfected by now, unless the Condor zone is too small to cause a change.
Ken.

 

[Malxwal]

Good results. Interesting re chronographs and actual versus published velocities. I wonder what these 243’s are doing with other bullets. With a 100gn bullet you need a velocity of a touch over 2800 fps to meet Scotland’s min of 1750 ft lbs of energy.

I wonder how many of the shorter barrelled 243’s meet the muzzle energy requirements regardless of whether they shoot lead or non lead bullets?

And indeed if it's policed in any way.

 

[Jagged77]

My club until recently had a restriction on solids, presumably because it’s a gallery range and solids deemed to have risk of ricochet. However they’ve amended to include copper expanding which seems sensible. They do have MV as well as energy restrictions in the range orders which precludes me from shooting .17 Rem, .243 and .300WM loads (the latter two being copper).

For Scotland, I can get my .243 over the threshold just (18” 1:10 twist), there’s not much margin for error though. I’m lucky the bullet / powder combination works in my rifle, if it didn’t and I couldn’t meet the requirements I just wouldn’t use it. Each to their own but I have zero appetite not to meet the law, especially as I have so many other options to choose from. The .243 would either get consigned to foxing / use in England, or rebarrelled to a faster twist.

 

[Graham M]

I have been reading this with a great deal of interest as I have just ordered a box of Barnes Varminator bullets for fox (use my .308 for deer). I have loading data for my .308 and have dropped from 150grns down to 130grns for the Barnes and have loading data for that calibre.
What seems very short on the ground is loading data for 72grn Barnes bullets for .243. I see that they are advocating R17 as one of the powders, but it seems that no-one has it in stock.
I used H414 for the last gawd knows how many years and still have a can, but is it too fast now for 72grn copper bullets that may be a little bit longer than the 75grn HPs I used to use.
Has anyone used H414 for this weight of Barnes bullet (72grn) and if so how did it work out???

 

[takbok]

I have been reading this with a great deal of interest as I have just ordered a box of Barnes Varminator bullets for fox (use my .308 for deer). I have loading data for my .308 and have dropped from 150grns down to 130grns for the Barnes and have loading data for that calibre.
What seems very short on the ground is loading data for 72grn Barnes bullets for .243. I see that they are advocating R17 as one of the powders, but it seems that no-one has it in stock.
I used H414 for the last gawd knows how many years and still have a can, but is it too fast now for 72grn copper bullets that may be a little bit longer than the 75grn HPs I used to use.
Has anyone used H414 for this weight of Barnes bullet (72grn) and if so how did it work out???

I've started using the 62gr Varmint Grenade bullets in my 6x45.

H414 should work ok for the 243 - it's the same as Win760 which is in the Barnes data.

 

[Graham M]

OK. I'm using 42grns of 414 so is this exactly the same as 760, because it does give me a bit of a safe margin if it is.

 

[takbok]

OK. I'm using 42grns of 414 so is this exactly the same as 760, because it does give me a bit of a safe margin if it is.

Yes they're the same Hodgdon but don't take my word for it - check other sources online.

The 72gr bullet isn't lead free, it's the 62gr that is.

 

[Graham M]

Bugger!!!!!!
I didn't think to look at them properly as I thought that being Barnes they would be copper as are my 130grn .308 bullets.


Shite!!!!!!!

 

[Graham M]

Can't seem to find any 62grn lead free and the only ones available seem to be 85grn which are over an inch long. Wondering if these will stabilise in a 1-10 twist Tikka.

 

[takbok]

Can't seem to find any 62grn lead free and the only ones available seem to be 85grn which are over an inch long. Wondering if these will stabilise in a 1-10 twist Tikka.

The 62gr Barnes VG, 85gr TSX & 80gr TTSX should all work with your 1:10 barrel.

 

[Graham M]

Ok cheers.
Absolutely ****ed off with this lead ban.