Travelling as a passenger with guns after a few drinks

A warranted officer is granted that his opinion in regards to drunkenness is sufficient in a court of law. This has to be accompanied by the following. Smelt of intoxicating liquor eyes were glazed speech was slurred unsteady on feet the person is deemed to be drunk. A civilian can't rely on this.
Civilian is a poor choice of word as police are civilians. However a police officer’s judgment can be questioned by the defence easily enough especially if a brief has prepared an expert witness to state otherwise!
It’s all up for challenge in court otherwise we would have no need for defence solicitors!
 
This is an extract from a comment to the Daily Telegraph article:

"As a warning to all of you who own shotguns legally, be careful after shooting (game/clays) and you have had a few drinks and are driven home by a friend, wife or partner and are stopped by the police. If your driver does not have gun license, and you are are slightly over the the limit the police will deem you drunk in charge of firearms and will confiscate your shotguns which will be extremely difficult to get back. Make sure whoever is driving has a shotgun license."

Daily Telegraph article

Has anyone heard of this happening? How many random taxi drivers have an SGC?
Show me where in legislation it states that possession of a licensed firearm, when under the influence beyond the drink drive limit , is a criminal act. So long as said firearm holder can justify good reason for initial possession then no case to defend. I believe the use of, or discharging said firearm when under the influence, would potentially constitute reckless use of said firearm with the risk to potentially cause fear and/ or alarm. However traveling with said firearm when not in use (whilst mildly under the influence and therefore in control) and not significantly intoxicated would be, imo, legal. where is the legal precedent? Reference please. Thanks.
 
This is an extract from a comment to the Daily Telegraph article:

"As a warning to all of you who own shotguns legally, be careful after shooting (game/clays) and you have had a few drinks and are driven home by a friend, wife or partner and are stopped by the police. If your driver does not have gun license, and you are are slightly over the the limit the police will deem you drunk in charge of firearms and will confiscate your shotguns which will be extremely difficult to get back. Make sure whoever is driving has a shotgun license."

Daily Telegraph article

Has anyone heard of this happening? How many random taxi drivers have an SGC?
What the actual ?

When I click on the link I get some posho avoiding the gaol for burning doon a Michelin restaurant?
 
Civilian is a poor choice of word as police are civilians. However a police officer’s judgment can be questioned by the defence easily enough especially if a brief has prepared an expert witness to state otherwise!
It’s all up for challenge in court otherwise we would have no need for defence solicitors!
That's the terms used in law. Police officers evidence is always cross examined. Defence and prosecution play thier parts its basic law.
 
Show me where in legislation it states that possession of a licensed firearm, when under the influence beyond the drink drive limit , is a criminal act. So long as said firearm holder can justify good reason for initial possession then no case to defend. I believe the use of, or discharging said firearm when under the influence, would potentially constitute reckless use of said firearm with the risk to potentially cause fear and/ or alarm. However traveling with said firearm when not in use (whilst mildly under the influence and therefore in control) and not significantly intoxicated would be, imo, legal. where is the legal precedent? Reference please. Thanks.
There is none and the officer has now power to request a sample of breath. So the officer can state he's drunk but there is no prima facia offence so irrelevant. Its not even mentioned in the link attached.
 
Well that's the problem we all see it.
A friend of mine went on a shoot invited and couldn't believe the amount of alcohol that was being consumed in the morning when it got to lunchtime my friend had seen enough and told the shoot captain he was not happy about this and was going home.
When this friend was telling me about this he was mad as hell he didn't disclose where he had been but I did congratulation him on his principles.
A couple of years ago, I was beating on a shoot where the guns (paying team of gents old enough to know better) had got so ****ed by lunchtime that they couldn’t get back out in the afternoon. It’s utterly beyond me that if you’re paying close to £2k each for a day’s sport, why would you ruin it by not having basic self control?
 
There is none and the officer has now power to request a sample of breath. So the officer can state he's drunk but there is no prima facia offence so irrelevant. Its not even mentioned in the link attached.
Exactly, as I thought. I would be inclined to state as much to the officer and ask that I be charged under the applicable law to which the officer believes applies. Love to see the cps take that one up!
 
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Exactly, as I thought. I would be inclined to state as much to the officer and ask that I be charged under the applicable law to which the officer believes applies. Love to see the cps take that one up!
There is no offence and its not down to the officer to charge. Its either a supervisor or the cps. Firstly the police have to meet a number of tests before it even gets to the cps. I have doubts on the authenticity of the story.
 
A couple of years ago, I was beating on a shoot where the guns (paying team of gents old enough to know better) had got so ****ed by lunchtime that they couldn’t get back out in the afternoon. It’s utterly beyond me that if you’re paying close to £2k each for a day’s sport, why would you ruin it by not having basic self control?
There are plenty for whom the drinking and lunch are just as important part of the actual shoot itself. And for those who take such days £2,000 is just small change. From a commercial shoot perspective I suppose if they don’t go out after lunch as they are so ****ed, the shoot still has at least an afternoon’s worth of phaesants still to shoot another day - either on another paid day, or on the beaters shoot.

It’s a form of wealth redistribution. They redistribute all their money on shooting, wine merchants, tips to the keeper, then in the pub, at the races etc etc. gunmakers, car dealers etc also take their fare share.

I have had the misfortune of having to grow up with such types and having had to work with such. It’s probably why I have very little tolerance for such behaviour.
 
Section 12 of the Licensing Act 1872 provides an offence for being drunk with a loaded firearm: “Every person who is drunk while in charge on any highway or other public place of any carriage, horse, cattle, or steam engine, or who is drunk when in possession of any loaded firearms, may be apprehended, and shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding forty shillings, or in the discretion of the court to imprisonment for any term not exceeding one month”.

So, as can be seen, the firearm in question has to be loaded. Obviously the penalties have developed since 1872.

As for evidence of drunkenness, police officers can indeed give evidence of drunkenness and are held in law to be expert witnesses for that purpose. Agree with it or not, cops deal with drunks in their work on a daily basis. As such an expert witness, I have multiple times given such evidence which has been accepted by the court. Of course, like any evidence, expert or otherwise, you can be cross examined and challenged about it and your evidence might or might not be substantiated. Quite often this happens when giving evidence of someone's state of mind by doctors. I recall one officer who, in the witness box giving evidence of drunkenness stating the defendant's eyes were glazed. He was challenged on that when the defence solicitor told him the defendant wore contact lenses. The officer replied he looked "double glazed". His "expert" evidence was, predictably rejected on that point.

"Civilian" is "a person who is not a member of the police or the armed forces" Definition taken from The Cambridge Dictionary. Agree with it or not. Many armed forces personnel past and present believe it's only them who can be not deemed civilians. Not true. And anyway, the police or armed services when off duty are treated in any operational incident as civilians, although the course the law takes after that might differ from non-police or non-service personnel. But that's another matter.

I do love a thread where people chuck in their opinions without checking facts. Jolly good fun.

As for drinking when using firearms, that's a different matter. I doubt many stalkers drink whilst stalking. However, in many circles mostly, but sadly not all in the past, having a port, wine, sloe gin or whatever at points during the day was the done thing when doing some "social" field sports. At it's least problematical, it'll lead to you not shooting as well. And whilst a small drink at, say, lunchtime might well not affect things terribly, there's always those who it affects badly, or those who will over-indulge. So, really, not a good thing.

Anyway, drive around or even be driven around in a state of drunkenness with your guns, loaded or not and the likelihood is, if caught, you'll loose your tickets, whether you get charged with anything else or not. So it's all a bit academic.
 
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Guns and alcohol do not and should not mix.

I don’t care about traditions of having alcoholic elevenses etc or even turning up worse for wear , it’s a case of total negligence and lack of care for anyone else should you have a ‘few’ in the name of ‘it’s the done thing’.

If you are planning to use a firearm the day after you drink ,then it’s a glass of wine or a beer and no more.

Turning up with more in your system is a total and utter lack of respect, for your fellow shooters , and even your quarry.


I’ll stop ranting now.
 
Is that the right link as that goes into a case of arson. In regards to the offence the firearm or shotgun needs to be loaded. Very strange not heard of anything like this. It doesn't make sense.
As mentioned this was a comment posted on the article of a guy charged with arson who was described as a shooting estate manager which is what caught my eye. The case was thrown out and the comments degenerated into a standard anti-useless Plod whingefest, of which this was the most notable. I have no axe to grind about the case, I just thought the comment would be of interest to the forum and start discussion, which it has.
 
As mentioned this was a comment posted on the article of a guy charged with arson who was described as a shooting estate manager which is what caught my eye. The case was thrown out and the comments degenerated into a standard anti-useless Plod whingefest, of which this was the most notable. I have no axe to grind about the case, I just thought the comment would be of interest to the forum and start discussion, which it has.
So it’s a comment added below the main article by a member of the general public and nothing to do with the journalist who wrote it???

Ffs, what a load of tosh.
 
Guns and alcohol do not and should not mix.

I don’t care about traditions of having alcoholic elevenses etc or even turning up worse for wear , it’s a case of total negligence and lack of care for anyone else should you have a ‘few’ in the name of ‘it’s the done thing’.

If you are planning to use a firearm the day after you drink ,then it’s a glass of wine or a beer and no more.

Turning up with more in your system is a total and utter lack of respect, for your fellow shooters , and even your quarry.


I’ll stop ranting now.
You are not ranting, in my opinion, for all it’s worth, you are speaking total sense.
 
So it’s a comment added below the main article by a member of the general public and nothing to do with the journalist who wrote it???

Correct, this was pointed out.
Ffs, what a load of tosh.
I sometimes don't know what to believe these days when it comes to reading about interaction between police and FAC/SGC holders. That's why I posted it, to start debate and throw some light on the matter: is it something that has happened, what is the opinion of the forum?
 
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