.243 or .308 or maybe something else?

[ChesterP]

I use a 308 for deer. I also use a 6.5CM for deer and fox. I like both. If I had one to keep in the cabinet it would be the 6.5 simply because it's nicer to shoot. As for "flatter" you won't notice much difference until out past 300 yds. Loading for both and ammo is about the same.

If I were starting from scratch and wanted one cal to do everything in a pleasant to shoot rifle, I'd probably go the 275 Rigby (7mm x 57). Milder shooting than the 308, good penetration for the occasional big Red and with a versatile choice of rounds and loads. It's often overlooked and deserves more recognition imho.

 

[Husky]

The OP comes from Falkirk, he is in Scotland.
As VSS says, 308 for reds then use it for everything else.

 

[FoxAndDeer]

I had a 308 as my first CF - the ground had predominantly fallow, and at the time I lamped the foxes or shot them in the daytime. Perfect balance.

I now shoot on a farm with only roe deer, and shoot foxes with a clip on Pard 007. I found the 308's recoil made it difficult to use the pard. I bought a 243, and it's absolutely spot on. Stalk roe in the day and when it gets dark I clip on the pard. No bullet drop to think about, and no recoil with the pard.

From the OP's original post, i would suggest the 243 is perfect for what he needs.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Interesting about the 270, it had crossed my mind after watching some videos on youtube about the deer managers real far up north. My local gun store only stocks PPU and Sako Gamehead in 270 which put me off, I don't know about PPU but the price was decent and Sako was more expensive then 243 and 308 not that's the deciding factor, more I would have wanted to try multiple different brands to find the one.

There's a lot of support for the .270. I personally would choose it over all else if I was only allowed one calibre. I use mine predominantly on roe deer, and download it to around 7mm-08 velocities with a 130 Sierra Gamehead. Minimal damage on roe, and has a manageable 22" drop at 350 yards if you need to stretch it. Of course, factory loads reduce this drop considerably, but this is what suits me for the time being. Moderated, it's a tame round that bears no resemblance to the shoulder-bruising deafening tyrant of a thing some would have you believe. As long as the rifle fits! For what it's worth, the .270 would be my personal recommendation all day, every day

 

[Gary123]

Not sure this thread isn't just going to confuse as there isn't a right answer !

I would have said 243 as it covers most of your shooting perfectly. 243 will drop Reds no issue BUT depending on where you are going to go shoot Reds in Scotland you may not be universally welcomed with a 243. Many (but not all) stalkers on the wilder hills may take a view that the 243 does not carry enough power further out in the event of a misplaced shot and in difficult circumstances that probability increases. Lots of people may also disagree with that view but you want to have a good day out not be with a fretting stalker from the off. My buddy would be making faces if you turned up with one and would be trying to get you to use the estate rifle. Does not get much wilder than his place though. But when I go after hinds in Ballater the stalker swears by a 243.

Alternatively, If you can get a 6.5 Creed approved for fox with a bullet at the lighter end of the weight range, you could then use 120/130gr on larger deer. So that would be a good solution. Perfectly adequate for all deer at sensible hill ranges.

One option would be to buy a 243 as it fits the vast majority of your shooting and if/when you go shooting in Scotland use the estate rifle. You also have an excuse then for getting the stalker to talk you through the drop and drift on each shot as its his rifle not yours and you get to play with other kit.

And another bonus is you generally don’t have to carry the estate rifle

I’ve gone 6.5CM for the Scottish current regs and to future proof for copper

 

[hoodwink]

There is no right or wrong answer here, but you asked if i were in the same shoes as you what would i get? That would be the 6.5 Creedmoor some dont like it because its trendy at the moment, but it works. If you shot non toxic most of the shops will have supplies as they would 308, but your firarms officer is more likely to approve a 6.5 as a first centerfire. It is a nice soft shooting round that i think helps encourage seeing the bullet strike at close range so useful in close woodland when you want to see that reaction to shot,
The 270 mentioned has a fearsome reputation both in knockdown power but also in the kick it gives you, i think they are both exaggerations, its flat and fast and can be more so with reloading, and doesn’t really kick anymore than a 308, but do you need fearsome knock down for Roe and occasional Reds or accuracy from and easygoing 6.5.

 

[User00040]

One with the cheapest ammo

 

[David78b]

Get both 243 for fox and small deer and 308 for big deer. Job sorted

 

[Scipio]

I use a 308 for deer. I also use a 6.5CM for deer and fox. I like both. If I had one to keep in the cabinet it would be the 6.5 simply because it's nicer to shoot. As for "flatter" you won't notice much difference until out past 300 yds. Loading for both and ammo is about the same.

If I were starting from scratch and wanted one cal to do everything in a pleasant to shoot rifle, I'd probably go the 275 Rigby (7mm x 57). Milder shooting than the 308, good penetration for the occasional big Red and with a versatile choice of rounds and loads. It's often overlooked and deserves more recognition imho.

Mauser reintroducing the 7x57 in several of it's rifles for the 130th anniversary of the cartridge.

Or so says this guy, anyways, English subs are available. Interesting. It's a fine cartridge for European game, and a Revival over some of its American cousins probably wouldn't be undeserved. I Wonder if Mauser is going for the traditional Long throat of the 7x57 or if they have revised...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

i dont know how easy obtaining factory loaded 7x57 ammo is in the uk though, or if the TS will be reloading, which are of course relevant factors too.

 

[Craigsaun]

I just love these questions

 

[cjs66]

Forget about a HMR they’re crap, well the ammo is anyway. Buy a 22-250 for your vermin, fox and Roe and a 308 for the reds if you need one

 

[caorach]

One with the cheapest ammo

This is the only correct answer if I might qualify it slightly by adding "the most easily available ammo."

In the end you are either going shooting, or you are going driving around shops looking for ammo and working overtime to pay for it So go into your most local gun shop and ask them to show you the ammo they have, eyeball the sizes of the piles in different cartridges, and buy a rifle into which the cartridge from the biggest pile will fit.

You may also wish to consider that some people are moving to "non-lead" bullets on the basis that lead is dangerous to the deer and that putting it back into the ground, from whence it was taken, offends someone in the posher part of London.

It is also worth looking carefully at ballistic charts. In the real world you have to remember the drop of your cartridge and it doesn't actually much matter what that number is. If it is 1 inch, or two inches, you can probably easily cope with remembering it. The difference in drop between most of the common stalking cartridges at stalking ranges is probably much less than the accuracy with which you can hold in the field. You might hear that everyone on the internet shoots half inch groups at 600 yards all day every day but they truth is they don't: they can't hit a 1 inch dot at 100 yards and their average 100 yard group is at least 3 inches. So you need to be very careful. Some time back there was a member on this group who was discussing accuracy and what he could shoot "all day every day" off the bonnet of his Land Rover. I checked his groups using the power of Google and they put him among the top record bench rest groups of all time for the distance he was claiming.

Make your life as easy as possible, even if money doesn't matter to you supply of ammo does and will probably be of increasing importance in years to come as further restrictions are placed on your life so buy the cheapest, most common as muck cartridge, and learn to shoot with it.

 

[badmolassesaccident]

OP also note that police views on DSC1 vary. I do not have DSC at all, but the police gave me initially ALQ on a closed ticket, followed by an open ticket (including a 300 magnum) a bit later.

 

[JohnSmith]

However, the deer rifle is something I want to spend the money on and get new and keep forever

This being said, I’d opt for a 308. If it’s one rifle to keep forever I’d rather be a bit over-gunned than the opposite.

308 will take any deer in Europe and all big game in North America. It’ll suit your needs no matter what you’re shouting 20 years from now.

 

[308tikka]

308 ‘overkill for foxes’.

Never heard such rot.

308 rips large holes in foxes. Instantaneous. And a very accurate, easy round to shoot. Lobbing bricks...? Oh dear, perhaps some people just arent that good a shot. There are 14 year old schoolchildren accurately shooting 308 with iron sights at distances far longer than most UK stalkers dare dream of.

What cartridge can you buy in EVERY RFD in the country? Which also has no problems with copper projectiles. Which is welcomed on reds. 308.

Personally in your situation Id opt for a 22-250 for the foxes and roe on the 1200 acre farm and use an estate rifle on reds but it isnt the question you asked.

Tikkas are also very reliable. Ive reached my sensible limit with four.

 

[badmolassesaccident]

^ Someone on here posted a while back about shooting a mole with a 300 Win Mag.

Nothing wrong with that, if it’s a safe shot. However the police are not going to give you a 300 win mag for moles. Likewise, if you tell the police you only want one rifle and you want to use it on fox and deer…. then some FEOs are going to suggest to you that a 308 is overpowered for you intended usage and suggest a 6.5.

Not that a 6.5 is more or less safe than a 308, but imho some forces will steer you towards something smaller than a 308 on first grant, if fox is one of your intended usages.

 

[VSS]

but imho some forces will steer you towards something smaller than a 308 on first grant, if fox is one of your intended usages.

No, not if fox is just one of your intended uses Only if fox is your principal "good reason" will they undoubtedly steer you towards something smaller.

 

[Gary123]

My licence states for my centrefires, 243 and 6.5, for Deer and destruction of foxes, I found the phrase quite apt

 

[badmolassesaccident]

^ it’s police firearms licensing. It doesn’t need to make sense.

 

[Dickie]

No matter what your told there is no such thing as overkill / too much gun as you cannot make something deader than dead..